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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Oct 22, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
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Not a word from Ethan about why he just stood there while two trees were cut down? Maybe he was looking the other way when the first one was started, but surely he could have stopped number two?
Instead he just drones on about Kinder's huge mistake. I guess only the actual saw wielder has any responsibility?
If that's the case, next time they just need to bring along an unknown buddy to do the chopping and it's all good.
Disappointed in Sterling's attitude also. People using trees for firewood in remote areas to keep their families from freezing have little to do with route blazing for sport climbing. Oh well.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
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Why are they continuing to ask for forgiveness for an unacceptable act?
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Oct 22, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
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From Petzl:
But as actions speak louder than words, we're encouraged that in addition to paying a fine to the Forest Service, Joe has also decided to donate $1,000 to the Sierra Nevada Alliance, whose mission is to protect and restore the natural resources of the Sierra Nevada for future generations while promoting sustainable communities. Joe will also donate a week of his time to tree planting and other service in Yosemite National Park.
That's what Joe needed to do to gain my "forgiveness" and respect. I did not like his apology and find him to be too self-promotional for my taste. However, he has stepped up and is taking accountability for his poor choices. Good on him for that. IMHO, this issue is closed.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
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Jesus H Godblasted christ. Squishy why don't you go kick a dog or whatever it takes to make yourself feel like you have passed enough judgement for the f*#king day.
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
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How many people in this thread crying over the cutting down of a single tree are going to go out and vote for politicians that want to drill for oil in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge?
Or is that okay because it's not in California?
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
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How many people are going to keep comparing this to something it isn't?
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MisterE
climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
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I was wondering today how Joey's "always psyched" mentality is holding up.
This will test his devotion to the stoke.
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julton
climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
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I'd still like to see a public caning.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
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With a juniper switch, right?
How many people here thought it was wrong for Potter to climb Delicate Arch?
How many people here thought it was wrong for Thesenga to set a frickkin' boulder on fire?
See, those are way more comparable.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
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How many people are going to keep comparing this to something it isn't? Bold Text
You know, if you insist that people not use this approach, 99% of the posts on supertopo would disappear. If two things are similar . . .
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
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I was wondering today how Joey's "always psyched" mentality is holding up.
This will test his devotion to the stoke.
Pretty damn funny.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
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I think the reason for the outrage is to counter the precedent Joe has set for other sport climbers. "It is a cool route, the action was justified". True, climbers have performed dubious deeds in the past and to some degree got away with it as few knew as there was no internet.
To put it into perspective, consider the pillorying of the first ascentionists of Wings of Steel. The slam fest still goes on today.
Why? To discourage others from following them down that path.
If Joe thinks corporate sponsorships will carry him into old age based on putting up the best .12 in the world, he is in for a rude awakening.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
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Casually chatting with my new neighbor this evening. I am going to take care of his 3 dogs for the weekend. Anyways he is from New Mexico and was asking me what kind of firewood we burn here in VT. My answer is mostly Maple, Oak, Beech, Ash, Iron wood, white and yellow birch and cherry. He tells me that back home in NM they burn mostly Pinion and Juniper. He is a super nice guy and a good neighbor. Good thing he is not a climber. He would be dead meat for sure in this crowd......
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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Hey tradmanclimbs, there is a big difference between pinyon and juniper firewood and a few solitary, very old juniper trees growing out of the base of some beautiful granite crag . . . simply no comparison. Pinyon and juniper grow in vast areas of the southwestern states and assume an almost brush-like status. The trees that were vandalized are much more unique and therefore intrinsically valuable than common firewood. Like it or not, there is a major distinction between the two.
I personally do not wish ill against anyone or anything . . . I just simply have a low tolerance for self entitlement and arrogance in a world where there are much greater concerns before us.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
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As if tradmanclimbs is taking care of a dog? No sh#t?? That almost deserves its own thread:-)
I liked johntp's post above, lots of good stuff here actually if you feel like reading & comprehending at the same time.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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The common theme I see from 90% of you guys and gals is LOW TOLERENCE and a Savage Bloodlust.....
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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Casually chatting with my new neighbor this evening. I am going to take care of his 3 dogs for the weekend. Anyways he is from New Mexico and was asking me what kind of firewood we burn here in VT. My answer is mostly Maple, Oak, Beech, Ash, Iron wood, white and yellow birch and cherry. He tells me that back home in NM they burn mostly Pinion and Juniper. He is a super nice guy and a good neighbor. Good thing he is not a climber. He would be dead meat for sure in this crowd......
Seriously? There is a big difference between firewood gathered in an area under the USDA regulations and whacking a tree to create another .12 sport climb.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
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Johntp. the reason for the outrage is about 10% concern over the tree and 90% pack syndrome blood lust.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
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This the modern version of a Pillory.
Pillory:
Defendants convicted of notorious crimes such as attempted sodomy, seditious words, extortion, fraud, and perjury in the eighteenth century were sometimes punished publicly in the pillory as a way of destroying their reputations and signalling public distaste for their crimes.
Set up in busy streets or open spaces, such as Cheapside or Charing Cross, where crowds could easily gather, the culprit (most were men) was placed on a platform with his arms and head secured through holes in the wooden structure. He was normally required to stay there one hour.
The pillory turned so that crowds on all sides could get a good view, and could express their disapproval of the offence by pelting the offender with rotten eggs and vegetables, blood and guts from slaughterhouses, dead cats, mud and excrement, and even bricks and stones. Some died from the abuse, despite increasing efforts by constables to protect the convict, by forming a ring around the pillory.
In some cases of seditious words, however, the crowd applauded the convict, pelting him with flowers, and collected money to present to him after his release.
Approximately five to ten people a year were punished in this way in London, but concerns about disorder and subversion of the purpose of the punishment meant that after 1775 few people were pilloried for riot, seditious words, or any felony. An 1816 statute restricted the pillory to perjury only and the punishment was abolished in 1837.
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Punishment.jsp#corporal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory
Or, maybe, just the modern version of the Stocks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stocks
Stocks are devices used internationally, in medieval, Renaissance and colonial American times as a form of physical punishment involving public humiliation. The stocks partially immobilized its victims and they were often exposed in a public place such as the site of a market to the scorn of those who passed by. Since the purpose of putting offenders in the stocks was to expose them to ridicule and mockery, passers-by were encouraged to throw mud, rotten eggs, moldy fruit and vegetables, smelly fish, offal, and excrement (both animal and human) at those being punished.[citation needed]
[edit] I am not posting the above from a pro-joe or anti-joe alignment. Rather, I am noting that this kind of public shaming has a long history and isn't confined to the age of the internet.
My personal belief is that he was terribly wrong to cut the tree. His focus was on climbing and not on the environment. Youth is never an excuse, only an explanation for his behavior. As a 51 year old, i tend to see 29 as pretty young. To me, this is the universe knocking on his door demanding that he learn something. If he takes the hint and dedicates his life to generativity and stewardship, it would help toward making up for the loss of that dear tree.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Oct 22, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
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I just simply have a low tolerance for self entitlement and arrogance in a world where there are much greater concerns before us.
Yet you continue to exhibit both self entitlement and arrogance...bet you are real proud of your thread huh? hypocrite.
Johntp...not that it matters at all, and I mean this because cutting the tree was a bad move, but the route is number grades harder than 5.12. Get the facts straight.
Tradman, well said. Your exactly correct in your last post.
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