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10b4me
Social climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 07:26am PT
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Private healthcare industry does NOTHING but take advantage of people's illnesses to make CEOs even wealthier than they already are. Plain and simple.
Exactly.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:09am PT
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Obamacare= another TAX!
those who like their doctor won't be able to see that favorite doctor!
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:17am PT
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I think there are fooked up people that take advantage of a system and it needed to be fixed but not to be taken over by government. What makes you think there aren't messed up people who will take advantage of this system too? Are there some type of precautions that have been taken? Perhaps I should phrase it differently. What programs do you think the government has run well?
I have talked to doctors and nurses that are very against this and see that bad effects, not everyone in the medical field wants this even though that is the mantra we are fed. I have a strong feeling someone or some people will take advantage of this system too and we will get screwed even worse than before. Our money is now going into the Washington quagmire to be redistributed and lost on the programs the government wishes to waste it on just like most every other government program IMHO. All you have done is passed it on to people who can figure out even more ways to waste that money on other things.
I'm not Anti-government Craig Fry, that would make me an Anarchist. I am against "big" government, please don't BS me and tell me you can't tell the difference.
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John M
climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:19am PT
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GReat Post SLR..
and good points Jaybro.
Our fire departments are pretty damn good. And well run.
Per dirt clouds post. The money needs to be compartmentalized and only spent on healthcare.
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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The doctor, and the off-width master, above, got it right! Some people still know how to think! If you believe that private corporate interests, that are in cahoots with each other, are anything other than large, legal, versions of the mafias, then you are probably watching too much corporate owned news sources. Stop watching, and listening, to what they want you to think, how they want you to speak, and maybe we can start to use our own noggins to figure out some of the nations social ills!
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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I also +1 to Ledge Rat. After all he knows what he's talking about.
The bummer, for me, about Obamacare is that, now we are forced to do business with the same companies who have been complicit in destroying the healthcare system in the first place.
I was completely for the "single-payer" system, which, I assume, is code for the government pays for it. Now, much of our hard earned tax money is going in to corporate profits rather than actual healthcare.
This was a bailout for the insurance companies.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:59am PT
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Our government and citizens are both much too corrupt to make public healthcare work.
The elephant in the room is the cost of health care in America.
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John M
climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 09:03am PT
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The elephant in the room is the cost of health care in America.
a place to start to lower cost is to remove the profit motive in health insurance. All other first world countries have managed to do that and they have lower costs then we do, yet they still have first world healthcare.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 09:30am PT
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SLR, thanks for putting this up on this thread...
To answer that question, you just have to look at the mess we've been in with private industry running healthcare for decades.
The answer is that a retarded panda bear in China can run America's healthcare better than private industry. We need to get private industry out of healthcare altogether.
I am a physician in the meat of it, and I can tell you from first-hand daily experience that private industry is destroying this country's healthcare system.
Private industry establishs a whole host of incentives that are simply not compatible with taking care of people's health.
Private healthcare industry does NOTHING but take advantage of people's illnesses to make CEOs even wealthier than they already are. Plain and simple.
Get private industry out of healthcare!
Years ago, my main comment was that health care should NOT be a business. And by that I mean not run by corporations. The main goal of a corporation is to maximize profits, not to make sure you are healthy. Look, you can't make money on people who are dead, and you can't make money on people who are healthy. But sick people you can sell a lot of drugs and services to. That's where the money is at, particularly the drugs.
Case in point; Me. I'm 50(8 years ago) and my chloresterol is 232 and I have mild hypertension. The Doc says I NEED to get on Lipitor, NOW (to be fair to my normal Doc, this guy I had to see as my regular guy was out sick). I ask why we are using the big guns already; I mean, is there nothing else I can do? Doc says NO, you need to take these pills. I blow off the pills and change my diet and exercise, show up for my annual and the hypertension is gone and my chloresterol is 185. They had just started transferring data over to a new computer data base and did not have my old data. My Dr. complements me on my good genes.
I'm not here to tell people what to do for their health. That is up to each and every person; what is right for them. But they should be letting people know what their full options are and let them decide. But you can't make much money on dietary cures, and you certainly can't patent them (at least I think you can't).
Chris
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 09:58am PT
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One last thought while I'm in the mood. Why is the current health care system a "growth" industry? Well you could say because of the boomers getting older. I call total bullshit on that one, but I'm NOT going to get into all the details. But, think about it. IF our health care "system" was really working, (and I mean before and after "Obamacare" hit. This has done nothing but shift piles of money around essentially) THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GETTING SICK EVERY YEAR, young and old btw, WOULD NOT BE INCREASING year after year.
Yes, it is a bt of a rant. My apologies if it comes across too much like a pure rant.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:03am PT
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Pretty Interesting that republicans continue to criticize a health care system when they have never introduced one of their own and know is to far along to eliminate without a revolution.
Also interesting that this supposed unafordable program now puts us somewhere around 50th in universal health care, behind every EU country, Canada, several middle Eastern countries, and Cuba.
Bolivia and Paraguay have more comprehensive systems for its people.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:06am PT
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Health care is "booming" because the "baby boomers" are growing older, living longer, and not taking care of themselves. Theis combination leads to people who are living longer and getting sicker and sicker and surviving their illnesses.
Nintey percent of all medical issues are directly or indirectly related to lifestyle choices, not the healthcare system.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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They're also going to present in greater numbers now that more of them are insured.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:14am PT
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How about we get the same plan Senators and Congessmen get, where 72-75 % of the plan is paid by the Govenment?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:15am PT
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Greater numbers are good for CEOs trying to make money, not for an already overwhelmed healthcare system.
Better insurance means that more people are calling an ambulance to go to the E.R. for a stubbed toe that occurred 3 years ago.
Private healthcare refuses to control such costs because they can bill the system and everyone makes money (except the taxpayers, who are the ones who eventually pay for all of this).
You have to get "for-profit" out of the process, and have a system that does not reward "spend-spend-spend" behaviors.
Garnishing money from people's welfare checks for wasteful choices would be one way to greatly curb costs, but private CEOs do not want to piss off the "customers."
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:19am PT
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SLR, I agree and disagree. Yes there are those Boomers. But more and more, the younger generations are getting sicker too. Perhaps I'm looking for information in the wrong areas, but this is where my research has led me. And I do admit, it is very tricky to find unbiased information at times. This seems especially true for easy access internet. There is (apparently) contradictory information all over the place. Probably, we would disagree an quite a few things. Since you are probably aware of these guys, Cambell, McDougall, and Esselstyn are who I'm currently using as base references to dive into more detailed info. I'll leave it at that, I just thought I'd try to let you know where I'm coming from without a major thread heist.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:22am PT
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Healthcare is a growth industry because there is increasing demand.
Dave, of course there is increasing demand. Partly it's opportunity (boomers), and partly it's built into the system.
They amputated the leg off a 91 year old relative who was having circulatory issues. Did that help her quality of life? She died 3 months later due to complications with these circulatory issues. One of my brother's in law is a gp ephasising geratric care. He wasn't there and on the case, but he was very skeptical the leg should have been removed at all. She was one her last "legs" anyway.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:22am PT
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Better insurance means that more people are calling an ambulance to go to the E.R. for a stubbed toe that occurred 3 years ago.
People are going to ER because Doctors won't make appointments to see them otherwise when they can opt out and serve only the CEO's and executives whoose plans are paid by corporations.
Private healthcare refuses to control such costs because they can bill the system and everyone makes money (except the taxpayers, who are the ones who eventually pay for all of this).
Congess, by catering to the Drug lobby, has itself driven up the cost of health care by refusing to allow competitive bidding on prescription drugs by large health care organizations serving Medicare patients. We pay more for drugs than any place on Earth. Congess has no interest in reducing health care costs by any method. It's what drives their reelection coffers.
We pay six times as much for the same drugs as New Zealand, and it is because of a law a Republican Congress voted in under Bush. It was in place before the affordable care act.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/518a3cfee4b0a77d03a62c98/t/534fc9ebe4b05a88e5fbab70/1397737963288/2013+iFHP+FINAL+4+14+14.pdf
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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Right, it's all about greed. Capitalism is all about greed. Capitalism works well for the people with the most muscle to flex. Capitalism needs to have a continuous flow of resources, and it needs a big enough fish bowl to survive in, to not pollute itself.
Well, anyone can see, if they want to open their eyes, that the resources are disappearing exponentially faster and faster. The earth was once in a very fine balance, with a vast and clean environment. Well, that no longer seems to be the true.
When folks only no one way, they can't see that another alternative might be possible. That keeps the power elites very secure, rich, powerful, and happy.
But, the masses have the total potential power, if they could only possibly be on the same page together. But, that's the crux.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Feb 25, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
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I guess some folks don't understand "Single Payer"
Instead of getting your health care Insurance from your job, which is just plain stupid; what if you don't work?, what if you lose your job because you are sick? what if you change jobs and get sick?
it's just plain stupid, right?
Single Payer is a system that does only one thing, pay your health care bills, cradle to grave. it is Not a Government Health Care system.
You go to the same doctors, you get the same care....
It is Not Free, you have to pay for it, the only difference is that it's 3 times cheaper, and as a bonus, if you want to pay more, you can.
Why can't I buy into it??
Why won't they let me take my chances with "Single Payer" if I want it personally???
WHY, because the Republicans will never allow it to happen because of their big cash payments coming in from the Private Insurance Comps.
They want us to go back in time so there is EVEN More Extortion out of the Private Insurance Comps sans regulations and price controls.
If they allow some folks to go into "Single Payer" everyone else will go into it as well, because who would want to pay 3x as much, and then those big cash bribes will stop coming in to those poor Repubs.
The Repubs could fix all this mess, but instead refuse to help America in any way. Is this not unlike the old enemy "Chaos", just bringing in Chaos into every Institution.
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