risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 201 - 220 of total 1468 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
Healyje,

A man-portable nuke can't just sit on a shelf for a period of time, and then be expected to go "bang" when the pin's pulled. If they're going to work, they require frequent and complicated maintanence, beyond the capacity of most governments - let alone a bunch of illiterate, Koran thumping cavemen.

These aren't AK's.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Based on this article, it looks like mainly Democrats in Congress were the ones who questioned the surveillance.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-edward-snowdens-nsa-leaks-are-the-backlash-of-too-much-secrecy/2013/06/10/eddb4462-d215-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html?wprss=rss_dana-milbank

The Justice Department and the DNI promised a new effort to declassify opinions issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court; Justice official Lisa Monaco, now Obama’s counterterrorism director, said all significant FISA rulings would be reviewed for declassification. But no new opinions were declassified under the initiative.

The House last year turned back attempts to require public reports on the general outlines of the government’s surveillance programs. The various disclosure proposals, offered by Democratic Reps. Bobby Scott (Va.), Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.) and Sheila Jackson Lee (Tex.), were defeated by the Judiciary Committee.

In the Senate, amendments to provide modest disclosures and declassifications, offered by Wyden and fellow Democratic Sens. Jeff Merkley (Ore.) and Mark Udall (Colo.) during the FISA renewal in December, were all defeated.

The FISA court itself colluded in the secrecy. After senators asked the court to provide declassified summaries of its decisions, the chief FISA judge, Reggie B. Walton, responded with a letter on March 27 citing “serious obstacles” to the request.

“It was a shoddy performance all around,” Aftergood said Monday. “The pervasive secrecy on this topic created an information vacuum. If congressional oversight was not going to fill it in, it turned out leaks would. That’s not the optimal solution.”

----


Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asked Clapper [ director of national intelligence ] at a Senate hearing in March, “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?”

“No, sir,” Clapper testified.

“It does not?” Wyden pressed.

“Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently, perhaps, collect, but not wittingly.”

We now know that Clapper was not telling the truth. The National Security Agency is quite wittingly collecting phone records of millions of Americans, and much more.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 12, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
I can't see how anyone would say the Clapper did not outright lie.

They ought to have him back before the committee in contempt of perjury charges
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 12, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
Holy Data Collection, Batman !!



Curt
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 12, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
For TGT and Dave.

Don't need a lecture on traffic analysis, I've been following its successes since the beginning and it's impressively effective.

There's no problem with using it for international communications as far as I'm concerned.

But here's the big rub when used domestically;

No government has ever refrained from abusing the power that it has been granted! That's what the Constitution is there to prevent. It's a limiting, not an empowering document, a characteristic that Obama has publicly complained about on several occasions.

What's to stop the administrative state from using it to say analyze the campaign traffic of the other party or grass roots political movements.

What if say Johnson had had it to crush the anti war movement, or a J. Edgar to pull the strings of every politician he encountered. (he did a good enough job without it)Or Clinton to punish the anti abortion movement.

There's a reason the fourth amendment is there and if we throw away our political freedom, the muzzies have won.

Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Jun 12, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
Here's a conjecture about one use the metadata will be put to. It includes the source and destination phone of each call. A truly enormous, 300 million by 300 million node matrix will be constructed. If phone i sends to phone j then node (i,j) will be set to 1, otherwise 0. These are sometimes called connectivity or topology matrices. There are many theorems and algorithms associated with these. Djikstra has an algorithm for determing the shortest path between any two nodes.

This matrix will clearly be mostly zeros. There may be theories as to what a terrorist subnetwork will look like within this giant matrix.

Dont't infer from this that I support this data harvesting. I am strongly opposed.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 12, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
You have to connect a helluva lot of dots between a database with everyone's phone records and nuke being smuggled into the country.

You don't have to connect hardly any dots at all once you come to the conclusion whomever might attempt such an attack will likely have a digital footprint - and clearly BushCo came to that exact conclusion - and are building out for 100% coverage of domestic and US-foreign calls. Now that's not my (or Marine Corps Lt. General Paul K. Van Riper's) conclusion, but it was BuchCo's or we wouldn't be arguing the point now.

[ Jonah Goldberg is 'intellectual jujitsu' author of one of the new right's pillars of modern conservative 'thought': Liberal Fascism (his mother is Lucianne Goldberg, who 'advised' Linda Trip in the Lewinsky scandal) ]
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:03am PT
I have no doubt at all that, should they be asked (and I'm sure they will be), SCOTUS justices will rule it's entirely legal to harvest call metadata under the Patriot Act's business records provision. That's why it was written the way that it was - transcripts of your calls? No. Telco metadata records (their business records) about your calls? Sure, no problem under the business records provision.

I understand it 'feels' wrong, illegal, and unconstitutional, but I very highly doubt that what with John Yoo having been involved with crafting it and especially since half the intent of the damn bill was to provide legal cover for this surveillance (I consider Yoo to be a real Mengele of the legal profession):

From a Frontline interview with John Yoo on 1/10/2007:

Frontline: And gathering intelligence then means gathering intelligence at home as well as abroad.

Yoo: I think that's right. Again, if you're going to gather intelligence and follow members of Al Qaeda outside the United States, you don't want to make the United States some kind of safe haven where once they cross the borders into our country it actually becomes harder to find them and track them down. That would be perverse; exactly the reverse kind of powers that you want our government to have when it's fighting especially this kind of enemy, which tries to infiltrate our borders and launch surprise attacks.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:07am PT
You are so full of sh#t Dr. F. The Dems had control of the House and the Senate for almost 2 years after Obama was elected.

Proof that Obama knows it is illegal and more promises he never intended to keep.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:19am PT
Bit of a side topic... sorry for posting the lengthy full text, but otherwise you have to subscribe:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/06/10/inside_the_nsa_s_ultra_secret_china_hacking_group?page=full

Wednesday,   June 12,   2013

Inside the NSA's Ultra-Secret China Hacking Group

Deep within the National Security Agency, an elite, rarely discussed team of hackers and spies is targeting America's enemies abroad.

BY MATTHEW M. AID | JUNE 10, 2013

This weekend, U.S. President Barack Obama sat down for a series of meetings with China's newly appointed leader, Xi Jinping. We know that the two leaders spoke at length about the topic du jour -- cyber-espionage -- a subject that has long frustrated officials in Washington and is now front and center with the revelations of sweeping U.S. data mining. The media has focused at length on China's aggressive attempts to electronically steal U.S. military and commercial secrets, but Xi pushed back at the "shirt-sleeves" summit, noting that China, too, was the recipient of cyber-espionage. But what Obama probably neglected to mention is that he has his own hacker army, and it has burrowed its way deep, deep into China's networks.

When the agenda for the meeting at the Sunnylands estate outside Palm Springs, California, was agreed to several months ago, both parties agreed that it would be a nice opportunity for President Xi, who assumed his post in March, to discuss a wide range of security and economic issues of concern to both countries. According to diplomatic sources, the issue of cybersecurity was not one of the key topics to be discussed at the summit. Sino-American economic relations, climate change, and the growing threat posed by North Korea were supposed to dominate the discussions.
Then, two weeks ago, White House officials leaked to the press that Obama intended to raise privately with Xi the highly contentious issue of China's widespread use of computer hacking to steal U.S. government, military, and commercial secrets. According to a Chinese diplomat in Washington who spoke in confidence, Beijing was furious about the sudden elevation of cybersecurity and Chinese espionage on the meeting's agenda. According to a diplomatic source in Washington, the Chinese government was even angrier that the White House leaked the new agenda item to the press before Washington bothered to tell Beijing about it.

So the Chinese began to hit back. Senior Chinese officials have publicly accused the U.S. government of hypocrisy and have alleged that Washington is also actively engaged in cyber-espionage. When the latest allegation of Chinese cyber-espionage was leveled in late May in a front-page Washington Post article, which alleged that hackers employed by the Chinese military had stolen the blueprints of over three dozen American weapons systems, the Chinese government's top Internet official, Huang Chengqing, shot back that Beijing possessed "mountains of data" showing that the United States has engaged in widespread hacking designed to steal Chinese government secrets. This weekend's revelations about the National Security Agency's PRISM and Verizon metadata collection from a 29-year-old former CIA undercover operative named Edward J. Snowden, who is now living in Hong Kong, only add fuel to Beijing's position.

But Washington never publicly responded to Huang's allegation, and nobody in the U.S. media seems to have bothered to ask the White House if there is a modicum of truth to the Chinese charges.

It turns out that the Chinese government's allegations are essentially correct. According to a number of confidential sources, a highly secretive unit of the National Security Agency (NSA), the U.S. government's huge electronic eavesdropping organization, called the Office of Tailored Access Operations, or TAO, has successfully penetrated Chinese computer and telecommunications systems for almost 15 years, generating some of the best and most reliable intelligence information about what is going on inside the People's Republic of China.

Hidden away inside the massive NSA headquarters complex at Fort Meade, Maryland, in a large suite of offices segregated from the rest of the agency, TAO is a mystery to many NSA employees. Relatively few NSA officials have complete access to information about TAO because of the extraordinary sensitivity of its operations, and it requires a special security clearance to gain access to the unit's work spaces inside the NSA operations complex. The door leading to its ultramodern operations center is protected by armed guards, an imposing steel door that can only be entered by entering the correct six-digit code into a keypad, and a retinal scanner to ensure that only those individuals specially cleared for access get through the door.

According to former NSA officials interviewed for this article, TAO's mission is simple. It collects intelligence information on foreign targets by surreptitiously hacking into their computers and telecommunications systems, cracking passwords, compromising the computer security systems protecting the targeted computer, stealing the data stored on computer hard drives, and then copying all the messages and data traffic passing within the targeted email and text-messaging systems. The technical term of art used by NSA to describe these operations is computer network exploitation (CNE).

TAO is also responsible for developing the information that would allow the United States to destroy or damage foreign computer and telecommunications systems with a cyberattack if so directed by the president. The organization responsible for conducting such a cyberattack is U.S. Cyber Command (Cybercom), whose headquarters is located at Fort Meade and whose chief is the director of the NSA, Gen. Keith Alexander.

Commanded since April of this year by Robert Joyce, who formerly was the deputy director of the NSA's Information Assurance Directorate (responsible for protecting the U.S. government's communications and computer systems), TAO, sources say, is now the largest and arguably the most important component of the NSA's huge Signal Intelligence (SIGINT) Directorate, consisting of over 1,000 military and civilian computer hackers, intelligence analysts, targeting specialists, computer hardware and software designers, and electrical engineers.

The sanctum sanctorum of TAO is its ultramodern operations center at Fort Meade called the Remote Operations Center (ROC), which is where the unit's 600 or so military and civilian computer hackers (they themselves CNE operators) work in rotating shifts 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
These operators spend their days (or nights) searching the ether for computers systems and supporting telecommunications networks being utilized by, for example, foreign terrorists to pass messages to their members or sympathizers. Once these computers have been identified and located, the computer hackers working in the ROC break into the targeted computer systems electronically using special software designed by TAO's own corps of software designers and engineers specifically for this purpose, download the contents of the computers' hard drives, and place software implants or other devices called "buggies" inside the computers' operating systems, which allows TAO intercept operators at Fort Meade to continuously monitor the email and/or text-messaging traffic coming in and out of the computers or hand-held devices.

TAO's work would not be possible without the team of gifted computer scientists and software engineers belonging to the Data Network Technologies Branch, who develop the sophisticated computer software that allows the unit's operators to perform their intelligence collection mission. A separate unit within TAO called the Telecommunications Network Technologies Branch (TNT) develops the techniques that allow TAO's hackers to covertly gain access to targeted computer systems and telecommunications networks without being detected. Meanwhile, TAO's Mission Infrastructure Technologies Branch develops and builds the sensitive computer and telecommunications monitoring hardware and support infrastructure that keeps the effort up and running.

TAO even has its own small clandestine intelligence-gathering unit called the Access Technologies Operations Branch, which includes personnel seconded by the CIA and the FBI, who perform what are described as "off-net operations," which is a polite way of saying that they arrange for CIA agents to surreptitiously plant eavesdropping devices on computers and/or telecommunications systems overseas so that TAO's hackers can remotely access them from Fort Meade.

It is important to note that TAO is not supposed to work against domestic targets in the United States or its possessions. This is the responsibility of the FBI, which is the sole U.S. intelligence agency chartered for domestic telecommunications surveillance. But in light of information about wider NSA snooping, one has to prudently be concerned about whether TAO is able to perform its mission of collecting foreign intelligence without accessing communications originating in or transiting through the United States.

Since its creation in 1997, TAO has garnered a reputation for producing some of the best intelligence available to the U.S. intelligence community not only about China, but also on foreign terrorist groups, espionage activities being conducted against the United States by foreign governments, ballistic missile and weapons of mass destruction developments around the globe, and the latest political, military, and economic developments around the globe.

According to a former NSA official, by 2007 TAO's 600 intercept operators were secretly tapping into thousands of foreign computer systems and accessing password-protected computer hard drives and emails of targets around the world. As detailed in my 2009 history of NSA, The Secret Sentry, this highly classified intercept program, known at the time as Stumpcursor, proved to be critically important during the U.S. Army's 2007 "surge" in Iraq, where it was credited with single-handedly identifying and locating over 100 Iraqi and al Qaeda insurgent cells in and around Baghdad. That same year, sources report that TAO was given an award for producing particularly important intelligence information about whether Iran was trying to build an atomic bomb.

By the time Obama became president of the United States in January 2009, TAO had become something akin to the wunderkind of the U.S. intelligence community. "It's become an industry unto itself," a former NSA official said of TAO at the time. "They go places and get things that nobody else in the IC [intelligence community] can."

Given the nature and extraordinary political sensitivity of its work, it will come as no surprise that TAO has always been, and remains, extraordinarily publicity shy. Everything about TAO is classified top secret codeword, even within the hypersecretive NSA. Its name has appeared in print only a few times over the past decade, and the handful of reporters who have dared inquire about it have been politely but very firmly warned by senior U.S. intelligence officials not to describe its work for fear that it might compromise its ongoing efforts. According to a senior U.S. defense official who is familiar with TAO's work, "The agency believes that the less people know about them [TAO] the better."

The word among NSA officials is that if you want to get promoted or recognized, get a transfer to TAO as soon as you can. The current head of the NSA's SIGINT Directorate, Teresa Shea, 54, got her current job in large part because of the work she did as chief of TAO in the years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, when the unit earned plaudits for its ability to collect extremely hard-to-come-by information during the latter part of George W. Bush's administration. We do not know what the information was, but sources suggest that it must have been pretty important to propel Shea to her position today. But according to a recently retired NSA official, TAO "is the place to be right now."

There's no question that TAO has continued to grow in size and importance since Obama took office in 2009, which is indicative of its outsized role. In recent years, TAO's collection operations have expanded from Fort Meade to some of the agency's most important listening posts in the United States. There are now mini-TAO units operating at the huge NSA SIGINT intercept and processing centers at NSA Hawaii at Wahiawa on the island of Oahu; NSA Georgia at Fort Gordon, Georgia; and NSA Texas at the Medina Annex outside San Antonio, Texas; and within the huge NSA listening post at Buckley Air Force Base outside Denver.

The problem is that TAO has become so large and produces so much valuable intelligence information that it has become virtually impossible to hide it anymore. The Chinese government is certainly aware of TAO's activities. The "mountains of data" statement by China's top Internet official, Huang Chengqing, is clearly an implied threat by Beijing to release this data. Thus it is unlikely that President Obama pressed President Xi too hard at the Sunnydale summit on the question of China's cyber-espionage activities. As any high-stakes poker player knows, you can only press your luck so far when the guy on the other side of the table knows what cards you have in your hand.

Matthew M. Aid is the author of Intel Wars: The Secret History of the Fight Against Terror and The Secret Sentry: The Untold History of the National Security Agency, and is co-editor with Cees Wiebes of Secrets of Signals Intelligence During the Cold War and Beyond.

FOREIGN POLICY is published by the FP Group, a division of The Washington Post Company 
All contents ©2013 The Foreign Policy Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
MisterE

Social climber
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:27am PT
War is at Home - you knew it was inevitable.

Turnkey Tyranny is so hot right now.
abrams

Sport climber
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:26am PT
Are you Ungoogleable? It is the newest cool.
Found the below from an unknown blogger with rather scary sop.


I'll let you all in on a little secret that makes defeating Google
(and everyone else) easy.

Lie.

To everyone.

The phone company, the utility company, your landlord, the bank,
everyone. Do it consistently. Give each one of these data tracking
nitwits a different name, address, contact phone (none of them need be
real, except perhaps for the bank, if you use one, have that mail sent to
you out of state). Make ups SSN for those the "demand" it. Pay your
deposits and forget about it. Lie to the DMV about where you live when
you get your license (if you bother with one, I don't). Same goes with
your insurance company. I don't plan on filing a claim anyway - why
should I? So I can pay a higher premium? (yes, I have insurance, it's
to protect the other guy, not me).


Lie to your neighbors (you may need to move). Lie to your "friends". If
they're really your friends, they won't care what your real name is
anyway.
\

Unpublished phone number? That only puts your name on a list. If you
don't want hassling phone calls, don't give out your phone number. Lie
when forced to reveal what is not in your best interest.


Lying needs to become a part of your defense. Your government lies to you
constantly, about everything. We are under no moral or ethical
obligations to cooperate with them on any level.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:38am PT
Turnkey Tyranny is so hot right now.

Lots of jobs, that's for sure, though not really in climbing hot spots:

http://www.clearancejobs.com/careers/6654/booz-allen-hamilton-careers
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Jun 13, 2013 - 11:09am PT
This shows what an a$$clown Freidman has become:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/friedman-blowing-a-whistle.html?src=me&ref=general

WBraun

climber
Jun 13, 2013 - 11:18am PT
You would be surprised what is really going on.

Not one person here has hit on the real facts yet.

You are all running blind as bats on this whole fiasco.

But that's nothing new at all here .....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 13, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Now that we are not at war, that excuse is not constitutional.


Now that we are not at war? Since when?
Check out this link.
http://icasualties.org/OEF/Fatalities.aspx

This is no comment on the NSA at all. Merely a comment on your assertion that we're not at war anymore.

patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Ronster,

Snowden and m anning are true patriots, and history will remember them as such. You really think foudning fathers wanted the gov't up your a$$?

Snowden is in China for free-speech asylum from the US. You can't see the sad irony in this?!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
I love it when people say what the founding fathers would have done if they
lived today. I wish I could afford a crystal ball.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
The United States is not at war, not constitutionally. Congress declined to exercise its duty in the matter.

DMT

Exactly, this "We are at war forever" BS is just an excuse to expand power and do whatever they want.

And it turns out Google IS evil. If you have Chrome or some google software on your computer, and try to block it from sending out information on you, the little app keeps reinstalling it in other places on your computer to get around the restrictions, just like malware. They suck.

Peace

karl
beefcake of wide

climber
Nederland/GulfBreeze
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
It's all Mimi's fault, she works for the NSA and just wants to check out my hot action now that she's all button down with that knuckle dragger Stevie Whatshisname.
Messages 201 - 220 of total 1468 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta