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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 12, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
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the pass to sacrameto?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 12, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
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That you Wally...?
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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May 12, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
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EDITED
Bluey and Co. see this as a violation of civil rights, and the truth is somewhere between them and you. I wonder why the parents are now silent? Perhaps a court ordered gag order? I am familiar with such.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 12, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
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who the hell is wally? he must be a good lookin fellow.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 12, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 12, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
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Due to CPS, my daughters cannot ever see their mom
What do your daughters have to do with the case in question? Nothing at all. The child in question is back with the parents, no?
You say it is partly good that they don't see their mom, I assume good for your daughters sake.
So WTF?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 13, 2013 - 01:07am PT
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Nobody ever said that Kos. Very disappointing that you think they did.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 13, 2013 - 09:43am PT
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I'm going on a hunger strike until breakfast.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 13, 2013 - 09:45am PT
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when blu goes on a beer strike I'll believe he's serious
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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May 13, 2013 - 09:49am PT
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No, but I'd like to.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 13, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to take my child away from a medical professional who deems them in need of medical attention... especially if I completed high school and clearly know at least as much as they do about anything and everything. It's what the founding fathers would have wanted... personal volition over reason!
Sad that the side trying to relaxing child labor laws are also the ones fighting funding for CPS and spearheading this ridiculous protest... and fighting funding to prevent unwanted children, the kind that could/would start working for the company that convince$ the parent$ to let them. I believe the children are our future... blurring and his ilk want to tea bag all of them.
Child molestation cases in the Catholic crutch extend to high levels... we should trust the crutch's moral authority and let them handle it internally.
CPS acts in full accordance to the law but inconveniences some parents who couldn't follow the simple hospital check out procedure... best obliterate the entire program.
Fuking insanity.
(good post Jeebs)
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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May 13, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
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My issue is not with CPS, or with anyone's friend or relative who works for them.
My issue is with lack of due process and unchecked authority.
Exactly!
What is evident in the Sacto case is that CPS kept the whole matter alive long after it was obvious the parents were neither neglecting or abusing their baby. Now, the family is probably under a gag order not to speak publicly about anything.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 13, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
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You and Wes seem to be framing this as an "all or nothing, our team or their team" debate. It isn't. This has nothing to do with guns, or immigration, or any other issue.
hahahaaaaa... holy sh#t bud... you seen blurring's posts? And you think "we" are framing it as "all or nothing?" Christ man... WTF?
"We" aren't claiming it is about guns or immigration or any other issue. You seen his puppet master's rants?
This is what we are protesting. When a government agency can order police to raid a citizen’s home, without a warrant, and to seize their child against the wishes of medical professionals, is a day that we have entered into tyranny. More is sure to come with state-run ObamaCare. Next it will be for your guns. As Dollard said, “if they can do this to these parents, imagine what they will do to us in the future.”
Also, in relation to the broader, over-arching problem of increasing 4th Amendment violations by law enforcement agencies, we are going to begin investigating “brainwashing” of police officers by the Federal Government (via seminars, classes, videos and literature) in terms of casting these officers’ fellow citizens as domestic terror and other types of threats, when in fact these officers’ fellow citizens’ only crime is being Republican and/or legally armed and/or military. It is precisely this ‘war on the right wing extremists’ mentality that is being inculcated into police officers’ minds by the Federal and some state and local governments that is most-often responsible for the type of behavior you see on the part of the Sacramento Police Department in this incident.
Is that anywhere near rational?
"All or nothing, our team or their team"... yeah, nice flip there!!!
You have some good points Kos, but these folks most certainly DO NOT. Sure there is room for improvement, but that is NOT what these folks are calling for.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 13, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
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1) the Nikolayevs had apparently been taking their baby to a specialist for exams regularly, I assume since birth.
2) the Dr., who presumably has been examining the baby its whole life, determines it needs surgery... soon.
3) the parents and the babies disappear from the hospital without checking out.
Kos, what do you expect the Dr to do? I, and most of society, would expect the Dr to contact CPS, especially if the parents were acting sketchy to begin with.
4) once CPS got the report they have to ensure the baby's safety.
When was CPS informed about the 2nd opinion? Who gave the 2nd opinion? Was it a specialist who had the baby's full history... or an ER Dr who was asked if their baby had the flu?
The whole mess would have been avoided if the parents had not taken their baby (with a potentially serious heart condition) from the hospital before properly checking out... but those who blow the "personal responsibility and accountability" horn the hardest insist it is a "big government" problem. The problem was CREATED by the parents, not the Dr or the CPS.
The Pat Dollards of the country have been saying Obama was going to be seizing your guns. Now they say they will be seizing your children. Stop falling into their bullshit trap of fear. You are better than that.
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John M
climber
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May 13, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
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Abusing children is a crime.
But "bad parenting", as determined by one person's subjective assessment, should never be handled by the criminal justice system.
So who determines when "bad parenting" becomes Abuse?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 13, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
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But "bad parenting", as determined by one person's subjective assessment, should never be handled by the criminal justice system.
Uh... wrong. "Bad parenting" is often a crime. And the legal system should get involved.
"Bad parenting" and crimes of neglect/abuse are not determined by "one person's subjective assessment." CPS cases often end up in a court of law for final determination with due process.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 13, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
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I think they were rash, probably got to the point where they had enough and just decided to take their business elsewhere. That was a mistake, and it set the machine in motion.
But it was not a criminal mistake
And NOBODY was accused of committing a crime (except CPS). The parents were investigated, as it should be.
Do you not see how they flip that sh#t all around on you Kos? The PARENTS CREATED the whole fuking mess. A government agency put in place to protect the welfare of children acted according to design, to ensure the safety of the child. And the fukheads get the idiots all riled up at the CPS for "taking their babies"... next it will be your guns... and then what? Hitler! Communists! Ted Nugget!
Edit: Kos, you can find corruption and/or paranoia in EVERY aspect of life. Those links you provide have NOTHING to do with this case.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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Dave Kos is largely spot-on here. CPS serves a role, but they are not exempt from abuses.
This case was clearly abuse. Wes will try to demonize the family, but his arguments have no merit based on the facts of the case.
The family was harassed.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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May 13, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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moran
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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May 13, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
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moran
Thomas Moran? Not sure i'd give him that much credit. . .
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