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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 27, 2019 - 09:44am PT
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The Zhang studies are ALL invitro though keep in mind. Although that's essential for initial studies we need live trials with animals and humans.
Many compounds don't cross the blood/brain barrier in humans very well or at all. Many more likely don't address Borellia biofilms in areas like joint spaces with poor or little blood circulation.
So the point is you're likely killing off the spirochete forms in your blood and well perfused tissues only to have the remote film reservoirs resupply new soldiers afterwards.
No easy solution for sure. But do be careful even with herbal stuff... If I were you I'd get some regular blood labs with LFT's just to make sure your not nuking your liver or kidneys as they try to process the supplements.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Mar 27, 2019 - 09:54am PT
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Thanks Fear, but from what I am told Oregano will never do that, unless you do not mix it 50% with olive oil. Japanese Knotweed is believed to cross the blood brain barrier as well as oregano.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 27, 2019 - 08:37pm PT
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Herbals like Oregano Oil may have some anti-biofilm properties, but remember that biofilms only happen when there are sufficient numbers of bacteria present to form them - in other words, there's already a sh#t-ton of bacteria if biofilms are forming.
And a herbal inhibiting biofilm formation is one thing, killing bacteria present in your system is entirely another. I personally don't believe there is any amount of any kind of synthetic or organic chemistry other than antibiotics which is going to have a remote chance of clearing your system of an infection. Ditto for things like raising or lowering body temp or pH (in that mid-1800s Kelloggs health resorts sort of way) .
Emerging Infectious Disease Journal
Co-infections in Persons with Early Lyme Disease, New York, USA**
Volume 25, Number 4—April 2019
Gary P. Wormser, Donna McKenna, Carol Scavarda, Denise Cooper, Marc Y. El Khoury, John Nowakowski, Praveen Sudhindra, Alexander Ladenheim, Guiqing Wang, Carol L. Karmen, Valerie Demarest, Alan P. Dupuis, and Susan J. Wong
Author affiliations: New York Medical College, Valhalla, New York, USA (G.P. Wormser, D. McKenna, C. Scavarda, D. Cooper, M.Y. El Khoury, J. Nowakowski, P. Sudhindra, A. Ladenheim, G. Wang, C.L. Karmen); New York State Department of Health, Albany, New York, USA (V. Demarest, A.P. Dupuis II, S.J. Wong)
Abstract
In certain regions of New York state, USA, Ixodes scapularis ticks can potentially transmit 4 pathogens in addition to Borrelia burgdorferi: Anaplasma phagocytophilum, Babesia microti, Borrelia miyamotoi, and the deer tick virus subtype of Powassan virus. In a prospective study, we systematically evaluated 52 adult patients with erythema migrans, the most common clinical manifestation of B. burgdorferi infection (Lyme disease), who had not received treatment for Lyme disease. We used serologic testing to evaluate these patients for evidence of co-infection with any of the 4 other tickborne pathogens. Evidence of co-infection was found for B. microti only; 4–6 patients were co-infected with Babesia microti. Nearly 90% of the patients evaluated had no evidence of co-infection. Our finding of B. microti co-infection documents the increasing clinical relevance of this emerging infection.
So odds of co-infection in your neck of the woods is 10% - on the first tick...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 27, 2019 - 09:00pm PT
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I'd have to agree that without the proper antibiotic cocktail that elimination in a patient already strongly colonated is probably not possible.
If I had to guess, the triple cocktail Zhang found that worked 100% invitro in conjunction with hyperthermia (in an office and monitored) would be a good start. Problem is there are no dosing guidelines and no human trials on the horizon since a lot of a-holes in the idsa can't pry their heads out of said a-holes. Chronic lyme still officially doesn't exist.
Until then we've got people suffering horribly trying all kinds of crazy sh#t...
The exact same political crap happened with Syphillis, curiously also a spirochete.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Mar 29, 2019 - 12:57pm PT
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I can say that I am starting to get back to normal. This is a day that I can say that things appear to be going back the opposite direction in my favor. I feel normal, I suppose I should try the climbing gym later. Last time I went a few days ago by performance was substandard, perhaps 5.9 from 5.11+.
My lockjaw is clearing up.
Twice I got in the tub around 112° Fahrenheit for around 15 minutes to soak my meninges in to kill all the spirochetes in there till the Knotweed catches up. I will probably do it again tonight anyway, but I need some Lactucarium tincture so I can get a good 30 minutes. I need some kind of sedative, as what is typical.
So, it looks like once the sh#t hits the fan it takes about a week to get it under control again. Wow!, what a ride.
I also used oregano tincture all night for the last two nights.
From here on out I need to be more aggressive until I slack off again.
One good thing is that I learned that the dirt tastes okay with applesauce! [2 blended apples] I think I will eat some more right now.
I also found better sources for herbs than china such as NY state. Finding this stuff locally took me a whole day.
https://harmonicarts.ca/products/lyme-ease?variant=15902098882675
This farm has Japanese Knotweed in their product
http://www.healingspiritsherbfarm.com/store/lyme-support#
This farm has Japanese Knotweed on hand.
When you get this stuff, whatever way you get it, all you have to do is put the J.K.W. in the blender to convert it from leaves to dust! I did not know that before, that saves a lot of money. I am talking about when they give these things to you dried up. If you go in the wood and dig up a root then you have to soak it in alcohol for a few weeks to make an alcohol-knotweed tincture.
I still need to find local oregano though.
Opps, looks like I have a problem 1.) I may have the wrong oregano and 2.) I can not make heads or tails of this paper:
Maybe you guys can help me out. Is this guy lucid or do I have brain fog?
“Getting Oregano Right
By Conrad Richter
From https://www.richters.com/show.cgi?page=MagazineRack/Articles/oregano.html
Oregano is one of the most popular herbs in the garden centre trade. In demand for its hot, spicy flavour, the “pizza herb” is a quick crop from seed, and an easy sale – provided you start with the right varieties.
The trouble is that the seed industry, out of ignorance, has for years sold the wrong seeds as oregano. Usually seeds of a plant that is more correctly called “common marjoram” – a hardy perennial with slightly hairy leaves and pinkish flowers – are offered as “oregano”. Common marjoram (not to be confused with sweet marjoram, Origanum majorana, an entirely different herb with its own distinct flavour and uses) has the right botanical name – Origanum vulgare – but none of the flavour and aroma typical of the imported dried product so loved in Greek and Italian cooking. …”
[ “The trouble is that the seed industry, out of ignorance, has for years sold the wrong seeds as oregano. Usually seeds of a plant that is more correctly called “common marjoram” – a hardy perennial with slightly hairy leaves and pinkish flowers – are offered as “oregano”.” ]
Common Marjoram is Not Oregano? In the first sentence Conrad sets us up with a question in our minds: What is the “trouble”, “ignorance”, and “wrong”?? The answer appears to be in the very next sentence with “Usually ….”. This would follow that “are offered” is to mean by Conrad “are offered” wrongly. Note the quotation marks around oregano indicating a wrongly so called “oregano” at the end of the second sentence! It would seem obvious that Conrad is saying “common marjoram” is called oregano out of ignorance, and not only that, it tastes like sh#t as we see by the time we get to the third sentence.
Common Marjoram is Oregano? But there is another possibility. Perhaps Conrad is explaining in the second sentence that “Usually …” has to do with a “Usually” that is a correct “Usually”. And that the “are offered” is a “rightly offered”. The only problem with this view may be that Conrad puts quotation marks around oregano. But the quotation marks could mean nothing because he just finished using them around common marjoram, and we know that he is not talking about a fictional marjoram there. Maybe he just likes using a lot of quotation marks? The same reason why they are around marjoram should be the same reason they are around oregano.
Conrad writes “Common marjoram … has the right botanical name – Origanum vulgare – …”. Okay so Origanum is the same as oregano, did Conrad just call marjoram oregano? Yes he did, and this time he did it without quotation marks. Now we need see if we can get some clarification here, let’s go elsewhere.
From Wikipedia: (btw Wikipedia lies about medical and other things, keep that in mind but forget it for now) Oregano (US: /ɔːˈrɛɡənoʊ, ə-/,[1] UK: /ˌɒrɪˈɡɑːnoʊ/;[2] Origanum vulgare) is a flowering plant in the mint family (Lamiaceae). It is native to temperate Western and Southwestern Eurasia and the Mediterranean region. Oregano is a perennial herb, growing from 20–80 cm (7.9–31.5 in) tall, with opposite leaves 1–4 cm (0.39–1.57 in) long. The flowers are purple, 3–4 mm (0.12–0.16 in) long, produced in erect spikes. It is sometimes called wild marjoram, and its close relative, O. majorana, is known as sweet marjoram.
So I am going to assume Conrad is correct, Marjoram is oregano and it is not oregano at the same time? I can not figure Conrad out.
Or maybe all this just has to do with seeds, I guess if that's the point then the rest has somewhere to go, maybe, I don't know. Maybe I should try and rewrite his paper. If so I certainly would not start out with "The trouble is that the seed industry, out of ignorance, has for years sold the wrong seeds as oregano." Rather I would say "The trouble is that the seed industry sells what should be essentially considered two completely different plants under the same name labeled oregano."
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 30, 2019 - 05:43am PT
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That's one of the huge problems with herbals is you really don't know what your getting. Even if you get the right plant you're interested in there's a lot of variability in active ingredients from lot to lot depending on the plants themselves and how they were processed. We're unlikely to see stringent protocols followed in an unregulated herbal processing facility.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Mar 30, 2019 - 07:18pm PT
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Well, maybe I can figure something out that might help or start a greenhouse. There are ways to analyze the plants for minerals and what it is in the plant that does the job. Some of it is organic. My lockjaw is almost gone, so the batch I am using now from here and there is working. I think tomorrow I will be able to eat an apple.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 30, 2019 - 09:40pm PT
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Personally, I think you need a three-month course of an IV antibiotic cocktail. That's what my NJ friend had to do to clear hers - walk around the house with a roll-around IV rig for such a stretch. Worked though.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Lyme is not going anywhere if you got no stomach acid:
The Importance of Hydrochloric Acid (HCL)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvvnKqNmNA
The #1 Remedy for Sibo, IBS, Gerd and Candida overgrowth: you can't heal your gut without it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9AVZWutjW8
How to Repair Your Gut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FAxw2487Ew
This is going to make a big difference in my reaction to the herbs. How did I first come to this conclusion? I have a book, I have the recommended probiotics, I have the stomach acid pill I try to remember to take after I eat a steak, I have the Bio-Kt plus. I should know the importance of all this stuff already. What happened?
What happened is I have this case of athletes foot fungus on my left pinkeye toe that will not go away. For the last week I have been removing all the white skin every day and dosing it with vinegar. Should work. So I did some research the results of which told me that if you do not have the necessary stomach acid your body will happily accept fungus and parasites. Yikes! What that means is that the reason why I have red skin on my face, (the rosacea no one has an answer for) the crazy sometimes bowl problems, the continuous fart and sometimes belch problem, the fungus, and a tougher Lyme problem has to be because I do not have sufficient stomach acid during every meal. It was the fungus that caused the research and that research that convinced me, because I realized that the problem is living there happily under my skin for some reason.
In other words it dawned on me that my body has a condition which seeks to remedy itself by means of partnering with parasites and fungus because I have no stomach acid. Now there are tests I can do, but I know this to be the case already as I can identify changes in my digestion with and without it. I just never realized the seriousness of dealing with this BEFORE every single meal. I suppose I will do some test later. In the mean time my rosacea and dry skin seems to be presently fading away, and I have no gas now.
This is interesting in that unless one can clearly see the cause and effect, he will not understand what should be the proper response. I had a response, but it was not sufficient to bring a cure. Such a cure is no cure at all.
It is also helpful to know that the bugs like stomach acid.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Are there any natural repellent oils that actually work (on skin and clothes), as an alternative to stuff like DEET, permethrin?
A lot of oils, like eucalyptus, citronella, etc are listed online as repellents....I wonder if they work.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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We're in tick central here in CT.... I've done some very rigorous scientific peer-reviewed studies on my own private stock of captive ticks.
A lot of things are repellent to ticks when fresh but permethrin is the only thing I've found with any kind of residual effect. I've had ticks embedded in DEET soaked skin... After 4-5 hours mountain biking with sweaty skin, the Deet is effectively gone for ticks although it still repels mosquitoes...
If you treat clothing/gear with Permethrin it'll last days/weeks although I still spray it every time.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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I have great concern with synthetic pesticides...and very allergic to a lot of things.
I've used neem oil to deter spiders with moderate success, have no access to ticks right now.
Have a couple of repellent mixes of natural oils (citronella, peppermint, lemon, eucalyptus, geranium, some others) - don't know if these really work, though.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Asian Longhorned Tick can reproduce without mating. Yikes!
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perswig
climber
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...my own private stock of captive ticks....ticks embedded in DEET soaked skin...
Reading that, I had a "IT RUBS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN OR ELSE IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN!!" image for a moment. Re-reading, all's good.
We and our local ER clinic have seen several clinical Lyme (fever, joint effusion) cases in dogs already this year.
Check yourselves and your canine companions.
Dale
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Apr 12, 2019 - 08:24pm PT
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A friend of mine here was scolding me, that I should not use the term Lyme, because I could have any kind of spirochete; especially since I got it from the Lone-Star Tick, who knows what it is!
I told him the term Lyme is used very loosely, and at the same time can refer specifically to Borrelia burgdorferi. That the treatments are all the same for the different tick spirochetes, yet any one spirochete can give you unlimited dissimilar symptoms! So what the hell difference does it make? None, that is why people just refer to everything as Lyme. Any spirochete can give you any disease and any herb tick treatment can kill any spirochete. They all will eat you alive if you do nothing ... well maybe not all ... some stay in your joints or else if you are unlucky in your brain.
Here is a video that proves my point, that is that 1.) that this doctor by default uses the term Lyme to refer to any number of tick born problems and 2.) this is born out again by the fact that he admits that he contracted it from a horse fly. (BTW, I think you can catch Lyme from horseflies, but not typically.) 3.) Then he turns around and uses the term to refer specifically to Borrelia burgdorferi.
Herbal Relief of Lyme Disease
https://video.wyomingpbs.org/video/herbal-relief-lyme-disease-iw27gu/?fbclid=IwAR2t3_OkuzQWqk9YOP20xM34Ykr46-iRKgGH9Pb3KEv3JexP-dTJOVk9__Q
How am I doing now? I feel okay now, but I suspect I have a little brain fog, not sure. I talk too much, more then normal ... perhaps. Starting today I am going for 4 times a day and once at night. I have to mimic the antibiotic and get it flowing continuously through my blood. Need to take three droppers full 3 times a day and more rather then just drops three times a day. And that along with the dirt. I worked on the computer 1/2 the day and yesterday I worked all day with no symptoms I could detect.
I make my own tincture now for Japanese Knotweed, found a better one on the market, and found better dirt. I used the stump, most people throw that part out. I had to beat it with a hammer to make it potentially worthwhile. Next I will make the powder as soon as I figure out how.
What fun I am having today! Got to keep it interesting.
And, I found out a secret protocol. Blend up the dirt and then mix it with apples and an orange and it tastes good instead of bad like dirt where I dread it and gag.
So exciting, it's like doing a big wall! Eshh .. so irrational ... I must have Lyme?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 13, 2019 - 01:50am PT
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Any spirochete can give you any disease and any herb tick treatment can kill any spirochete.
That would be nice if that were true, but that's not really how it all works. Mabe a trip to Tuscany is in order, but then again a friend just came back from Italy with a Lyme variant he contracted there...
Conference On The Science of Spirochetology and Spirochete Disease Pathogenesis
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 13, 2019 - 11:22am PT
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One of the best first steps is to see a real neurologist who believes in chronic Lyme. I can get you a few names in CT. They don't take insurance though and are extremely expensive. The first thing they'll do is a complete workup with like 30 vials of blood being sent to different labs.
You're right in that Lyme might not be your only issue or your problem at all as there is no valid direct test for it.
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perswig
climber
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Apr 13, 2019 - 12:32pm PT
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You're right in that Lyme might not be your only issue or your problem at all as there is no valid direct test for it.
Yep.
https://www.symptoma.com/en/info/polyarthritis
Consider reading this again; it's remedial but relevant, IMO.
Whether or not a rickettsial infection was the precipitating event, everything you continue to describe suggests inflammation, which at this point may very well be occurring in the absence of infectious etiology. Or from less-than-rigorous sterility from home arthrocentesis for that matter.
You would do well to take fear up on his offer and see a specialist in neurology or rheumatology; put the faith, time, and money described here chasing alterative therapies into a thorough diagnostic workup and treatment regimen that you 1. follow, 2. objectively assess, and 3. document.
Not stop after 3 days because you do, or don't, feel better in one body part or symptom. Or you miss the taste of dirt.
And while it's true that some health care professionals continue to be oddly intransigent to acceptance of the extent of arthropod-vector disease, take a hard look in whom you're entrusting your current care.
Dale
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Apr 13, 2019 - 07:38pm PT
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Yeshhhh ... did you guys read https://www.chronic-lyme-disease-solutions.com/lyme-disease-support.html ???
I made an appointment with that guy for 10/10/2019 $250.00 and he gives you a tailored protocol to get your immune system working to deal with Lyme so as to beat it. You think he is lacking in something? Not sure where we are going here in light of my previous post because you both suggested those other guys in Connecticut. The lab rat thinks he is on to something big.
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