Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
|
One of the original pins on The Magical Mystery Tour used to be over to the left where the guide shows the original route going. After the FFA I think Matt went back and did something more direct but I don't know specifically what. Kind of moot now, but it would be interesting to know what Matt did before things settled into their current state.
On pitch 2, where the original route moved left, I added a bolt under the roof for a more direct (and logical) line back in 1994 (It's on the topo and noted in the text in the 2001 guide) which made a lot more sense since the original route basically traversed all the way left, off the slab and into a corner before moving back right. It's only 11a over the little roof, so maybe Matt went back up there and did it without any pro, but I wasn't aware of it at the time.
As far as fixed pins go on Tahquitz....they come and go, and usually they can't be relied upon for more than a season or two, as freezing and thawing loosens them up pretty quick, and they need to be re-hammered. After a few years they can usually just be plucked out by hand.
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
|
This is kind of interesting, rating revision suggestions. Might be somewhat useful to the guidebook authors.
The Ghost. Can you say sandbag, dumptrucks full. + one letter, probably 2.
Double Exposure Direct, Terry Ayers underrate. + one letter at least.
The Bookworm, just a suggestion, remove the last sentence from the 2001 guide. Not needed. It is what it is, and nobody is likely to argue much with the given rating.
Yes Bob, often it seems one picks a rating and hopefully it's close. Nitpicking ratings is usually a pointless exercise since there are so many variables. Not worth it unless it seems obviously off.
If ratings are to serve a useful purpose they need to be stout, haha. Seriously though, the more people who make suggestions the better if ratings are to be meaningful. While others would argue that it doesn't matter much. Whatever.
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
|
On pitch 2, where the original route moved left, I added a bolt under the roof for a more direct (and logical) line back in 1994 (It's on the topo and noted in the text in the 2001 guide) which made a lot more sense since the original route basically traversed all the way left, off the slab and into a corner before moving back right. It's only 11a over the little roof, so maybe Matt went back up there and did it without any pro, but I wasn't aware of it at the time.
Agreed. Better line going direct, that jog was bogus. We're talking hearsay from me now, since I wasn't there when Matt supposedly went back. I heard that he had somehow gotten into the Incision seam much ealier, that was part of the reason for returning - the seam. I haven't been back since repeating it once prior to the Incision, so I don't recall clearly what the story is up there. The guide shows bolts there. If using pins or being bold, could it have been done without bolts? Thoughts from those in the know? This I know though, Matt could be flat out scary bad-azz when he wanted to.
Being handed the rack (his) from Matt for a crack pitch.
Us: "There's only 3 nuts on this rack Matt, and they look like the wrong size."
Matt: "I guess you'll need to conserve and hope to find somewhere they fit."
I suspect more than a few of us experienced that nightmare.
Edit: Thinking about it a little more - Bob, when you did the Incision were there any bolts already on the seam? I need to see if KP remembers anything about the Cox bit. - Fixed pins are usually bogus unless they're an absolute weld job, as you alluded to.
|
|
BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
|
Bob, when you did the Incision were there any bolts already on the seam?
None. Actually The Incision and Pitch 2 of Magical Mystery Tour are two independent lines that meet at the original bolt belay for Magical Mystery Tour at the end of pitch 2.
As Murf pointed out to me after he did The Incision, the topo in the 2001 book is a little off.
a better description would be:
The Incision 5.11b
From the 3-bolt belay shared with Edgehogs climb up to the first bolt for Edgehogs, them climb the face up and left past a bolt up to a small overlap. Above this climb past 3 bolts on a slab up to another small overhang, above this follow a left-diagonalling thin seam (with a pin and then a bolt, crux 5.11-) up to the bolt belay shared with Magical Mystery Tour.
|
|
Brian
climber
California
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
|
Bob, Josh, et al.,
On the topic of the Bat Crack/Crucifix/Field of Dream linkup, what's your thinking on the Crucifix (not Crucifixion, which Henny is addressing)?
I'm perfectly happy to be told I'm getting weak and old, but the traverse from the top of the Crucifix to the belay at the base of Field of Dreams felt incredibly difficult, certainly harder than the 11b rating.
Possible explanations: (1) I'm weak; (2) I'm stoopid (and couldn't read the route); (3) Bob is a sandbagger (cause he's good, not cause he's malicious); (4) maybe it actually is harder.
I'm pretty convinced it is a combination of (1) and (2), but in the spirit of talking about my favorite local crag, I figured I'd sound out other opinions.
Brian
PS--As I've said on other threads: many thanks to Bob for authoring so many great routes.
|
|
slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
|
just to toss some crap o the fire-
Caliente is great
Rebolting sucks
Playin' is way better
Devil is 11+
BG rules
you remember BG, mallery, Callaghan and me in the 80's ?
|
|
BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
|
Hi Brian;
When I go back on some of these routes I put up 15 or 20 years ago when I was super strong, I often think it's underrated...but it's probably because I'm getting old and weak too!
With mountainproject and sites where people can vote, ratings have become more of a general consensus and a democratic process, rather than just going by what one person (the guy who did the FA) says, and I'm all for that. As a guidebook author, I would, however, defer more heavily to someone like Darrel Hensel who climbs at the highest level and who really understands the grading of hard slab climbs.
I just think we need to compare ratings to something everyone agrees upon as a standard, as a sort of callibration. Like the Open Book being 5.9.
|
|
BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
|
you remember BG, mallery, Callaghan and me in the 80's ?
Is that John Strand, the slab master??
|
|
Brian
climber
California
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:05pm PT
|
Good point about consensus Bob. I would take some solace in the 11c rating of Crucifix on Mountain Project, except that there are only 4 votes and one of them is my own 11+!
Oh well. The numbers are only a guideline; the main point is that that linkup is so, so good. We're heading out next Thursday and I'm going to try to gently direct my mates back in that direction so I can have another go at it!
Brian
|
|
BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:11pm PT
|
11c rating of Crucifix
Hi Brian:
The feedback I've gotten from a lot of people is that Crucifix is 5.11c and Field of Dreams 5.11d
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:19pm PT
|
Brother Gaines: Remember that route we did called Bukatude with that impossibly hard start that we fiddled with for hours before we ever got it? And later, the route, Nirvana. That had some fine climbing on it. Wonder if those routes ever get done. I'e always wanted to do Moondance as well and never have.
And doing those routes with you on the South Face, Archangel and Crucifix and Hell's Angel, though I can only remember the hard bit of Archangel at the bottom and the moving left up higher, and the other two routes are a blank in my head. Maybe I'm dreaming . . .
JL
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
|
Good stuff.
I need to find out if I can, what, and if, Cox did up there. Doesn't sound like he got into the seam early based on BG's comments. Unfortunately it's so long ago probably no one remembers anymore.
Rebolting sucks Blasphemy!!! hehe
Playin' is way better Than what? Anything else?
I would, however, defer more heavily to someone like Darrel Hensel That would be a mistake. I usually guess.
The numbers are only a guideline Yeap.
Something like MP is a good deal, where people can influence the rating (so to speak). As mentioned though, it needs people to input their opinions, and hopefully honestly. At one point when entering the routes on MP I just used what the guide had, it didn't seem worth debating. That kind of defeats the process though I guess. Although I felt entering the guide rating and then letting people comment was a good approach. Not sure if the top page rating can be changed, or if it would be worth the trouble. The consensus aspect of each page does account for that I guess. Oh well, as long as the rating is relatively close, good to go, eh?
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
|
I think Nirvana is relatively popular.
Bukatude, uhmmm, not so much so.
Never done Moondance??? That demands immediate remedial action.
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 08:31pm PT
|
Todd, where's Mechanic's Route?
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
|
Johnny Quest? Really? I like the route but don't think it holds a candle to Flower or Insomnia.
BTW, I've always liked Illegitimate alot. Way under appreciated route.
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
|
Mechanics is just right of the Open Book, Tahquitz. Another good one.
We need a first-hand report of what it was like in '37 with sneakers and manila rope. I nominate Sketchy and a partner of his choosing. No procrastination, and we expect a detailed TR.
Edit - sorry, I spoke for Todd.
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
|
We need a first-hand report of what it was like in '37 with sneakers and manila rope. I nominate Sketchy and a partner of his choosing.
And I'm nominated because you think I'm that old and remember what climbing it was like back in 1937?
|
|
henny
Social climber
The Past
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 10:20pm PT
|
hahaha!!!
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
|
If you whipped off the crux of the second pitch I don't think it would matter much if the rope were Manilla or Nylon.
|
|
Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
|
|
|
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
|
I think Fingertip Traverse is the best 30' of 5.3 on the planet.
Fingertip is a really cool climb. It was my first multi-pitch. I was sitting at the bucket belaying RJ on the Traverse, having led the layback, when this dude pops up from below. He says he's 35' above his last piece and lost. He didn't look happy. I threw him a bight of rope and he batmanned up.
Right about that time, I hear a lot of clanging, and look over to see a guy taking a big whipper on El Camino Real.
So I'm sitting there wondering what the f*#k have I gotten myself into?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!