Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
|
|
Yeah, Rok, that is kind of the way I heard it. I could go into details, but I guess we should wait for the straight poop to come out. This thing was totally preventable, though. Nobody blows out in an oil zone.
And this was no more Obama's fault than a bolt of lightning. And the cleanup...well it is almost a hopeless situation. You can bet that Republicans will try to turn this to their advantage. Which is odd, because almost nobody in the oil industry is liberal. That is just dirty pool, and the mud would be slung the other way if Bush was in office.
This has nothing to do with politics. And there has been drilling in the deepwater going on for quite a while. A huge chunk of our national production now comes from deepwater fields.
The only good thing, if you think it is a good thing..is that hydrocarbons naturally biodegrade in warm climates. So it should be OK in ten years or so. There was a monster tanker spill in the Med once that cleaned itself up. Took forever. We even inject certain types of bacteria in wells to prevent paraffin build up and things like that. Bacteria will eat the crap out of oil. It will take many years, though.
By contrast, I have heard that you can still go to Prince William Sound, turn over rocks on the beach, and there is oil beneath. If you think this is scary, just wait until drilling starts in the Chukchi Sea or offshore ANWR. Obama opened those areas up. A spill in the Arctic would be a nightmare.
Obama is pretty helpless here. I don't know what he can do other than make sure BP picks up the tab pronto for everyone who has lost their means of making a living along the coast.
Obama has a blowtorch on the feet of BP right now. I wouldn't want to be those guys having the president of the U.S. that pissed off.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
Hey Mark, the explosives I heard about them using would be placed about 500 feet down near the hole. This came from a friend who had been in Houston who talked to 'oil' people. Something about 50k fps ordnance.
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
|
Great info, Base - thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
|
|
hossjulia
Social climber
Eastside
|
|
Cross post. note: The media is clueless and reporting bs.
It is really sad that Obama caved into pressure from these grotesquely huge corporations and allowed drilling to continue in the Gulf.
2 weeks later, BP, HALIBURTON and the industries governing body had a party on that rig celebrating it's perfect safety record. Big party, all executives involved on the rig, probably really celebrating their "victory" over Obama. This has NOT been reported in the news. Those executives were rushed off that rig right after the explosion.
It is the general opinion in the industry that the 11 guys watching the rig may have been distracted by the goings on and missed a gas bubble that reached the surface, exploding the rig, mangling the feed tube and killing all of them. Not to mention the other things that happened.
These gas bubbles can happen fast and be easy to miss, according to my brother who has worked off shore and done that job. As they are under extreme pressures, when they hit the surface, it's like a bomb going off. The guys that were in a position to stop it all died instantly.
He thinks it's the worst accident ever. In human history, not just in the industry. He also thinks BP is the best drilling company out there with the best safety records and such. Haliburton, not so much, and they were the ones contracted to do the drilling.
He also told me the only way to stop it is what they are doing now, drill 2 side holes and blow out the whole area. Which is a shame, this seems to have been the "Mother Load" of oil in the Gulf.
One other thing he said really struck me. "In the BEST of circumstances, drilling offshore, heck, drilling ANYWHERE, is risky and dangerous with the potential for environmental disaster. You add distractions and pushing too hard for results, and well, this is what happens." He is very, very upset and saddened by this. As are we all. He has been against offshore drilling for sometime and was disappointed Obama caved into the pressure. I'm sure he is too.
If folks who have been in the industry for 30 years can see it is too risky to drill offshore, then why is it still happening?
My brother was a driller in Venezuela and Argentina after cutting his teeth as a roughneck in Wyoming, the Gulf and Texas. He worked closely with the geologist and really understands the science. He now drives the rigs to drilling locations in North Dakota and helps put them up.
Hella climber too.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
hossjulia: "If folks who have been in the industry for 30 years can see it is too risky to drill offshore, then why is it still happening?"
Great question. IMO, it's all about keeping the cost of energy low, although now after this horror show, we'll see how serious those in charge will be to significantly reduce this risk. Such changes are costly for the companies and those costs are passed on to the consumer. I'm as close to crying as I've been after seeing the Seattle Times front page just now. Over 100 miles of LA coast hit by the oil, a struggling brown pelican covered in it, and no end in sight. I found out over the weekend that a friend's brother from college days was one of the eleven killed. This is beyond horrible.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
If folks who have been in the industry for 30 years can see it is too risky to drill offshore, then why is it still happening?
It's an easy question the more you know. The world uses 120 million barrels of oil EVERY DAY. The US uses 25% of that with only 2% of the world population. The rest of the world want's their piece of the pie as well.
Add to that Oil production is peaking and coming oil will be more expensive to get and dwindle anyway. We're not talking about just higher gas prices but people dying and not having the time, energy, money nor technology to make up the difference. No sweat over 5 years, over 50 years, we're hosed without a miracle.
Don't even respond if you don't understand the arguments made on the first two pages of this site
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
Sadly, this very gulf oil field WILL be drilled dry sooner or later, just like the arctic will be.
Of course we don't want do it now. Like a mascectomy, our greedy asses will get motivated when costs soar, when it costs $15,000 to fly to Japan, when Gas cost $15 a gallon, and if not then, it just gets worse.
Not saying I like this, but it would take a real miracle to change the path we are on. So far, the gulf is totally screwed hard hard hard and there isn't even an additional billion (spent in Iraq every week) going to alternative energy out of this
Peace
Karl
|
|
willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
|
|
Karl, your perseverance is astounding. I gave up.
Base, thanks for chiming in. Any thoughts on the blown out casing that is documented to be bubbling up in several places?
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
That these are awful images is an understatement. Stories have come out reporting that the success rate saving the shorebirds has been very good. The key is to get to them soon enough. The area will recover in time but who cares about that right now?! Just like Katrina, we all knew this could happen and now it's happened.
|
|
willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
|
|
Radical, I don't know if you will be able to go there in August.
First-hand report from a friend working a dog and pony booming boat as a medic says he hasn't seen a live fish or bird yet.
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2010 - 12:21am PT
|
Riley, I agree, but it's like the Ray Kroc thing: you cannot move from your stance or you open the flood-gates. The number-crunchers advise fighting it, ignoring it - more profitable in the long run.
BTW, the whole seizebp.org thing amazes me. People really think that a grassroots organization can sweep the globe and disperse a multi-national corporation's assets?
That type of thinking is a idealistic waste of time, in my opinion.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Talk is cheap.
How many of you would be willing to stomach a 30% increase in your income tax to pay for a strenuous transition away from fossil fuels. It could save untold lives. Oil depletion is likely to lead to an eventual meltdown of our economy and worse.
But no, everybody wants market based solutions to "the Problem" but ALL the Fossil fuel based solutions are dangerous and polluting. It would take a manhattan project x10 to get alternative energy on track to bridge the coming gap as fossil fuels run low even as the world (like China and India) continue to develop. No Guarantees even then.
Until something like that happens, we like chain smokers that cut back from two to one pack a day after having one lung removed. Feel safer?
Why you think Obama approves of offshore drilling even though it loses votes for him, not a winning deal? Cause he knows we're screwed. He just can't say so without crashing the markets.
Peace
Karl
|
|
willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
|
|
"STORIES"!
Keep watching the "news", Mimi
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
How many of you would be willing to stomach a 30% increase in your income tax to pay for a strenuous transition away from fossil fuels. It could save untold lives.
Me.
|
|
willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
|
|
Karl, you are contradicting yourself now.
There is no "money"! Just way too many people due to the explosive power of the thing we are talking about.
|
|
willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
|
|
WE ALL EAT OIL!
Crap, I said I had given up.
OK, I'm off to watch some killer local music and then rest for work tomorrow. Climbing Sunday.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
They say the carrying capacity of the earth is about 2-3 billion people without using fossil fuels.
I don't know how easy it is to come up with that number but it's worth thinking about.
Try to fly a plane without fossil fuels. How do we get from here to there?
Problem is, those people are already here. How do we get from here to there?
It might be interesting times for us. It will for sure be epic times for our kids
Peace
Karl
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
The most addicted entity to oil is our very own government. They make
more money per barrel of oil then any other single entity in the
pipeline. That would include, BP, Haliburton, any Union worker you
can find, the local Joe's gas station owner, ...., you name it.
Give us the stats or a link please Skip. Maybe you are just talking smack.
and so what if it's true? Do you know that virtually every modern country taxes oil and gas higher, much higher, than the US does. And if they didn't get money from oil and gas, they'd have to get it somewhere else right? From you? I know you don't want that. Gas cost more in most other countries except oil rich nations.
I Suppose we could pull out from Iraq and Afghanistan and gut the military, our biggest expense by far and least contributing to our productivity and economy. Bet you don't want that either.
So what's your point?
Peace
Karl
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Gas cost more in most other countries except oil rich nations. The smart oil-exporting countries, such as Canada, Norway and England, ensure that their citizens pay world prices, or even more, for petroleum. That is, developed countries. Developing countries that export oil often make the mistake of providing cheap or subsidized oil and gas, which just delays their having mature economies.
And those are hideous, disturbing photos of the birds. And for every dead or poisoned bird or fish found, probably hundreds aren't.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Just because you say this interesting fact doesn't make it true Skip. You don't have the credibility of past accuracy to make unsupported statements when called on it but hey, the point stands..
If the government didn't extract any money from Oil in taxes and licensing fees, how would we make up the (monumental according to you) budget shortfall?
And why shouldn't they? A lot of this drilling isn't on private property. The oil belongs to all of us, the people, not an oil company just because they have a drill to bring it to the surface.
The government serves the people, however much that sounds strange to you. Our infrastructure is not cheap nor optional.
Peace
Karl
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!