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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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I once took a look at TZ from the ground and thought I do not need that kind of pain. Give me a good finger crack.
Juan
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Peter says
"If your cardiovascular condition is not superb, wait until it is."
But my buddy says, "You ain't gettin' younger and stronger. Yer gettin' older and weaker...so get cher ass up there!"
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WBraun
climber
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I've said this many times.
In order to learn off-width climbing one must spend some time on it.
It's a very difficult discipline to master as it is not as natural to climbing as face and cracks.
The best guys have always spent a good deal of time on off-width learning how to work with their body to climb it efficiently without wasting all ones energy on it.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Do people lead it more than once?
Juan
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Werner speaks even more truth than even he, usually does, in this one,
Offwidth is endurance, kinesthetic awareness ( you gotta be able to pimp any rest that comes your way!) and sometimes some party tricks .
This loser for instance,
Could barely tie in after that lead. I hear his timing has gotten better, but still needs work...!
-Leversee photo.
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scuffy b
climber
Whuttiz that Monstrosicos Inferno?
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Good question, Juan.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Where's that pic been hiding Jay? That thing is dreamy.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
The 7th Pin Scar on Serentiy Crack
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Why not just go up and TR the thing? Outer Limits is right next door, so there's definitely fun to be had.
Also, where is that wicked looking pic above from?
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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I never toproped TZ, Jay. Besides, Gary is too proud, he would just lead it.
Steve
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Of course, Okie might have been referring to the latest young-adult vampire-romance books and movies, the latter being filmed in Vancouver. It would be seasonal, what with Hallowe'en and all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_(novel);
No idea whether one stabs a vampire left side or right side in, but I guess a wooden wedge would be needed.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sorry Steve, Gary, didn't some elements of the BAWC TR it sort of recently? This Alzheimer's is killing me....
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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A few years ago my partner and I arrived at the base of Outer Limits, our first time to try the route, when seconds later a couple of Japanese climbers appeared. I asked "Are you here for Outer Limits too?" They didn't speak english but the guy pulled out a huge cam, pointed up at Twilight Zone, and smiled.
I got up to the OL belay in time to watch him lead it. For awhile only his outer foot was visible, desperately smearing the rock, but I heard a lot of grunting and then his right arm appeared grasping the huge cam, rotated up around and back inwards, and disappeared into the invisible wide. This was followed by more foot smearing, grunting, and upwards movement. It was inspiring.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Werner- "And climb the last pitch to the top.
Otherwise you never did the route..."
I climbed TZ in 1974, and I definitely remember the last pitch.
Mark Moore led the second pitch, and I led the first and last pitch.
Definitely a pucker factor on the last pitch.
Kind of odd in that you go from a left side in OW, up to a steep ramp off of a ledge, with sketchy pro ('74' rack) and thin (dime) edges/friction with a dusting of dirt filtering down from above.
I had one of those "I am gonna die" moments making the crux face move. And by then I had led many of the 5.10+ and a few of the 5.11- face climbs at Suicide and Tahquitz and many of the Apron routes. But the one face lead I do remember is the last pitch of The Zone.
There is definite commitment involved and along with the dust/dirt, I felt a 5.9 rating was questionable.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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The last pitch of Twilight Zone is 5.10a at least. The Reid guide of 94/98 has it this way as well. And as I said somewhere on ST, there have been a few falls there.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Peter- "The last pitch of Twilight Zone is 5.10a at least"
Glad to here that, and I surely agree.
Back in 1974 I was informed the first and last pitches were 5.9 for what ever reason.
I felt the first pitch was a comfortable 5.9, and after getting my butt kicked on the second and barely surviving it, I was anticipating the third to be a breeze.
I don't have Donny's guide. There are allot of routes I wonder about.
One for instance is the difficulty of the two back to back off-width pitches on the 'Son of Heart'?
First lead by Rick Sylvester.
A very good friend of mine attempted the second ascent of 'The Son of Heart' in 1975. The only reason I didn't join him as planned is a severe case of dysentery after another wall we had just done together.
He told me in detail about leading both pitches with absolutely no pro/zero/Nada, 100+++ feet run-out on 5.10 ow. He said he sat for a day looking up at them before he committed himself to leading. He said he new they were going to be totally unprotected from belay to belay.
His name was Dave Stutzman(sp)RIP.
Dave was an incredible climber and alpinist.
He was patrolling at 'Big Sky' Montana and was buried in an avalanche on Christmas Eve 1982.
They made it to less than one pitch below Thanksgiving ledge, ran out of water a couple days before that. Mark Chapman and somebody else rescued them.
Dave was realy disappointed after completing practically all of the 'SOH' and with less than a pitch...
Does any one know what those two back to back off width pitches are rated today?? I think Dale Bard and Mike Graham bagged the second ascent a few years later.
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WBraun
climber
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Mark Chapman and somebody else rescued them.
Jim Orey I think
Hey those guys bailed on Mark and Jim.
They said they'll buy dinner that night and they skipt town .......
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Werner!
I new I was opening an old can of worms.
I heard about that.
Also Mark told me that they threw down a rope from 'Thanksgiving' an 11 mil.
Maurice (the other climber on the ascent) jugged up it. Then Mark threw down a 7 mil. expecting Dave to tie the haul-bag to it, which Dave did and cut it loose. But Mark was shocked to see Dave jugging up on the 7mil. with the haul bag swinging below.
Mark told me that Dave never told them thanks.
I can definitely see the rift.
When I questioned Dave the following Fall.
He told me that he didn't want to be rescued, he had already prepared himself to die. Although he smiled when he said it, I believe he was serious about it.
I told him it was wrong and that their was amends to make.
He was never excepted in the 'Valley' because of his Alpinist background and style. And was considered, for lack of a better word, over committed, and a risk to climb with because of his do or die attitude.
Ask Jello about Dave's intensity! He was invited to go on an expedition with him and put up an incredible ice ascent of?? in Russia?..I forget.
Or ask Jack Tackle about the guy. They put up 'Isis's' together on Denali. And came within 400 ft of the first ascent of the Moose's Tooth or Devils Thumb which ever was high on the list of every alpinist until Bridwell finally pulled it off.
I was invited on all those climbs, and I mulled over it for many day's.
I wish I would have. Friend's warned me against it, but I made the decision.
I am not sticking up for anyone, it was a bad move on his part.
Keep in mind they were both hallucinating badly (they had hung there for four day's before anyone went up).
Regardless, he should of made amends, and its to late now.
I had nothing to do with it so I will leave it at that.
I will say that one of the nicest complements I ever got from a climber, was when Dale Bard told me that if I had joined them on the 'Son of Heart" they would have finished the climb. Dale, Bobo, Millis and a number of other people were in the room with us when Dale told me that. And although I was embarrassed at the time I new he sincere. Dave was counting on me to do the 'SOH' with him and I let him down.
The question was about those two back to back OW pitches on the 'SOH" Werner, I had nothing to do with his actions or lack of them regarding Mark and Jim.
Hunt down Maurice (Swiss climber) he stayed in the 'Valley and climbed two more routes on El Cap and the Direct on Half Dome and had pleenty of opportunity's to repay Mark and Jim. I saw little of Dave after that.
I just asked a question about the difficulty of the OW's. I regretted not going and I have always been curious as to the nature of those two pitches.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Trip7,
You might read Terra Icognita of the Mind by Reinhardt Karl(sp?). It's about an early repeat of SOH by some Germans. I remember the wide stuff being a focus.
Here's a TR from Levy and E: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/682186/Son_Of_Heart_-_T_R
Huber called Kierkegaard Chim 12b when they did El Corazon, but all the topos I've seen for SOH call the chims 5.10.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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how can a route with a Kierkagard chimney be anything but fabulous?
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Elcapinyoazz!
Thanks alot. I am going to be spending alot a time reviewing Levy and E's TR of SOH. It is just incredible. Fantastic shots.
Dave gave me a pitch by pitch run down of SOH and the ordeals they encountered. This was Dave and Maurice's first El Cap. route.
Maurice led the 'A5' roof, a long day nailing a left facing roof, higher up on the route. It was the hardest aid pitch from what I recall Dave telling me, they called it A4. Was no A5 in 1975.
Dave told me when they got to the bottom of what he described as a double over-hanging, flared off width corner, shooting up for more than 250 ft. He just laid there in his hammock (not a portaledge, this was Spring, 1975) for a whole day he said. One whole day, just staring up at that beast.
He said he slept little that night.
There were no 'cams' in 1975.
He told me that the next day, some where around 100 ft out with no pro in, Maurice started yelling madly, "put in some protection, put in some protection". And in Dave's words "just to get him to shut up, I took one of my aider's and rolled it up into a ball, and shoved it back into the crack, of course it wasn't going to hold anything. But it shut him up for a while."
He said it fell out after he got about 20 ft. higher, and Maurice started yelling "were going to die, we are going to die" in his Norwegian accent.
Think about it, absolutely zero pro for the whole pitch (Nietzsche Chimney) he gets to the belay and then another identical pitch (Kirkegaard Chimney), waiting for him.
He led both pitches in one day. Over 250 feet of the most hideous off-widths in the 'Valley', totally unprotected.
Think about it again, Huber called it 12b.
Dave told me he used absolutely no aid or pro on those two pitches, and Maurice confirmed it.
I have sat and wondered, and day-dreamed about those two pitches, and the rest of SOH for countless hours over the years. And wondered how I would have fared. One of those two leads would have been mine.
Dave was the best off width climber I had ever climbed with. That I was certain of long before his attempt on SOH.
Thanks again, Iam going to be spending some time reviewing this TR.
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