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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 31, 2009 - 10:27am PT
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Its not just climbing, it's life. We never know when we leave the door or the campsite each day if we will return safely. Anything can happen to any of us at any moment so it is crucial for all of us to clear up any baggage that we have.
I had a bad breakup in the late 80s that never resolved itself. right after 911 I vowed to go clear it up but was too chicken. I had at least 4 or 5 dreams a year where this woman and myself wrer passing by each other and we both wanted to talk but couldn't. Nightmares really. I drove right by her house every day for 6 more years before she finally contacted me and let me know what I needed to hear and I let her know on my end the things that she needed to hear. Just like that the dreams vanished.
Imagin if either of us had passed on before that reconciliation the tourtured soles of both the liveing and the dead.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 31, 2009 - 10:31am PT
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Nice one, Tradman. But you should have been quicker to offer the olive branch. Even if she didn't accept it, you knew you tried.
I like the Obama approach - the Beer Summit. I'll meet anyone anytime. See you on the bridge this fall, eh?
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redrocker
climber
Las Vegas, Nevada
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Jul 31, 2009 - 10:32am PT
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"Good climbing and good company often go together; each is essential to the enjoyment of the other."
Tom Patey
From Royal Robbins book Advanced Rockcraft
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 31, 2009 - 10:39am PT
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Nice job, Karl. I have always tried to get along with people, even in my youth, even though I could feel as strongly as the next guy about an issue.
So it always amazed me how poisonous stuff could get between climbers sometimes.
Must Get Along It's Only Climbing
(Even though it's one of the most important things in my life.)
Munge, that really cracked me up!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 31, 2009 - 10:45am PT
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Pete, I was the one who had been sent packing and told not to call way back when so my fears of contacting her were pretty valid. I didn't want her to feel like I was pushing her. She needed to come to the place where she did for it to happen. As chance would have it 14 something years later I moved into a cabin 4 miles farther up the road from her farm and had to drive by every day which made me feel a bit uncomfortable...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2009 - 11:04am PT
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Cool posts everyone.
If this thread starts to fade, I think it would be cool if folks told some of their tales of Bad blood made good, or sadly, bad blood that remains that we can't get over.
Peace
Karl
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:09am PT
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But isn't sad that a god has to fall from the sky to heal bad blood on earth, especially when the bad blood is the result of a shared passion? Or, on the other hand, is this healing the ultimate tribute to the fallen?
Either way, those of us who, as Peter so delicately puts it, are approaching our life expectancies, tend to acquire a certain perspective on former issues of hot contention, and I for one don't think fatigue has anything to do with it.
If we manage to stay conscious as we age, the boundaries of our knowledge and understanding expand enormously, and the almost claustrophobic confines of our youthful perspectives give way to broad vistas in which our original views, now the subject of contexts previously unimagined, occupy a far more modest place,
So I would say, yes, reach out to those from who you have become estranged, before the final estrangement renders all gestures futile. But while we are at it, how about tamping down the some of the trash talking that all too often characterize our everyday electronic discourse? Why pollute the communal interchanges we obviously value with the toxic effluvient of the worst aspects of our imperfect nature?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:28am PT
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Hey Karl,
SuperTopo has provided a ready means for many of us shrunken, testosterone depleted, surpassed-by-all, dotage dwelling climbers to let bye gones be bye gones. As I have pointed out to most of my old climbing friends, SuperTopo and the get-togethers are cathartic.
I don't really think that it is so much that there is any current bad blood (the energy level to even start is beyond the pale), just uncertainty about how all the old stuff fits together now after years of sitting neglected. Because of forums like SuperTopo and get togethers such as the Nose50 reunion and John’s memorial (which I couldn’t attend), most of us have realized that our time together a long time ago has many more shared and treasured moments than old hurts and my-routes/style-are-better-than-your-routes/style taunts. (Now it is polite talk about kids).
As Peter points out, we all end up in the same place--nothing like the scent of rigor mortis to clear the air.
PEace
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:32am PT
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I just choose to like everyone, see the positive and keep good humor about life.
Bad blood takes too much energy to engage, plus negativity affects one physiologically and can lead to a multitude of health problems.
That's just what I choose to believe.
I wish some of the angry and judgemental people on this forum would see past their opinions, beliefs and perspectives to find the healing Karl speaks of.
Trolling is the antithesis of the healing.
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:41am PT
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Amen, Karl, and the rest of you peaceful warriors.
Kind, thoughtful and caring words.
Climbing has been such a wonderful gift to my life. Style and ethics are important, but it is the friendship and great times together that we will carry with us the longest.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:42am PT
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Peace brothers! Right on Karl.
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:46am PT
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I guess to some people, negative attention is better than none at all. Like the saying goes -- "the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about" ..
How do you help such folks ? I think just cutting off their supply of negative attention is best. Use the ignore button.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 31, 2009 - 11:48am PT
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Karl,
Thanks for getting this dialogue going. I will say that from the perspective of climbing parts of five decades that climbers are a pretty damn collegial group. Sure, there are spats that are usually "tempests in a teapot" but, for the most part, climbers get along, have shared values and respect each other more than the population at large.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 12:16pm PT
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Well put, Jim, and thanks, Karl. I was never a good enough climber to feel (or, I hope, cause) any bad blood from climbers. I think our shared passion leads to a bond that's hard to break when the chips are down.
John
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 31, 2009 - 04:21pm PT
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Group hug!!!111
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kev
climber
CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
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Hey Karl et al,
We all get frustrated, etc at times, and I think that it easily gets amplified by the web. There's the difficulty to put much of a tone of voice, or 'tone of face' in text. Sarcasm or even self mockery can be easily misconstrued. That said I'd believe (hope) that the overwhelming majority of us would happily sit down and have a beer or soda with each other around a real campfire.
Even me, with my panties in a bunch about bolts, would happily have a drink with anyone involved in the fevered debate(s) (as long as we could talk about something else for a change). It's ok for people to agree to disagree.
There are a few people who I have strong ethical (climbing) disagreements with. I still did hanging with them and camping with them. They're great people we just don't always see eye to eye.
Anyhow my point is it's fine to disagree - accept that you're gonna disagree and chances are other than that the person is prolly a pretty cool decent person. Doesn't seem like there should truly be 'bad blood' especially over petty things.
On that note I'm heading to out to climb. Have a good weekend all...
cheers,
kev
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 31, 2009 - 05:35pm PT
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Isn't it our independent ways that inversely creates the 'climbing community'? - the net just makes that transparent whereas before it was a collective psychological phenomena only validated at camp fires, climbing mags and topos.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 31, 2009 - 05:45pm PT
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Yerian's speech was amazing. He offered up a suggestion that will be hard to live up to, but is about the most rewarding, important thing in life.
"it's about love... watching out for... and trusting, each other..."
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 31, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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Dave spoke eloquently at Daryl's memorial also, in a similar manner.
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MarthaP
climber
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Jul 31, 2009 - 06:12pm PT
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Karl,
I think it's also possible to forgive our own bad blood and just walk away.
Carlos Castaneda said that in every circumstance there is a petty tyrant - someone there to push our buttons and force us to take a deep look at ourselves in how we handle such situations.
I think it's possible to let it go but sometimes in doing so it means letting the physical manifestation go as well. No point reconciling where there is none to be had.
Beyond that I'm too weak a human to take on what I see is something Mother Teresa and the Dalai Lama are best at. I am humbled by their souls but will inevitably take a hike on the Kumbaya trail.
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