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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:41pm PT
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"(gay sex scandals, etc)"
That is more republican specific. The Dems are usually caught with another woman.
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:45pm PT
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If cops packed heat like this there would be no disrespect...
seriously though...imagine you had a job where everytime you encountered someome they gave you crap. Imagine a job where everytime you pulled someone over you might get shot. The simple lesson is don't mouth off to a cop. He has a Sh1tty job dealing with people who really don't care. just my retarted take.
Josh out!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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pardon the pun, Josh, but that's a total copout
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
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That sounds like a course designed to perpetuate racism, t*r.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:49pm PT
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graniteclimber--racial profile much, do ya?
But a personal vignette: a few months ago I was in the "Deadwood Tobacco Company," a bar that also sells cigars and has a walk-in humidor in Deadwood, SD. I walked into the humidor, inspected a few cigars. Out of nowhere, a bartender came up and accused me of stealing cigars. I was pretty much dumbfounded, of course angrily denied the accusation, offered to show that I didn't stead anything, etc.
The guy eventually backed off. He was not particularly apologetic. I left the bar; the incident put me in bad mood and really shocked me.
I'm white. Sh#t happens and sometimes we all get treated badly. It's not always b/c of skin color. (This was western SD--probably everyone in the town was white.)
Differences between me and Gates:
-I was actually unfairly accused of something, whereas Gates was being legitimately investigated (although of course he didn't do anything wrong, until he started harassing the cop);
-I didn't assume my ill treatment was part of some grand conspiracy: just some as#@&%e who made a crazy mistake for some reason and then didn't want to own up to it;
-I don't have my buddy the president to stick his nose in a localized, weird situation that he really knows nothing about.
One interesting observation: if I were black, I would have imagined that I was accused of shoplifting *because* I was black, "imagine" being the operative word.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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I just saw a follow up interview with Obama. He is basically saying his gut feeling was "words were exchanged", they should have calmed down "and cooler heads would have prevailed". I think he should have said no comment last night, but what he said today was probably spot on.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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atchafalaya,
Please read the post again. I didn't make up any facts. I just stated my opinion that it was a "safe" conclusion to make based on your post, which shows a lack of understanding as to Gates' behavior.
I would not have reacted as Gates did. I would have thanked the officer for his concern and shaken his hand. But I can understand why Gates reacted the way he did given his age and experience as a black man in America.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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Did the police act stupidly? Yes. Did Gates? Yes. I have a nephew who is a sheriff's deputy, a former law partner who was a police officer, and several friends in law enforcement. We hold our law enforcement personnel to a higher standard than we do those with whom those LEO's come in contact.
All of the LEO's I know are aware of that, but not all understand it. We currently have a case in Fresno where the soon-to-be ex wife of a FPD officer was arrested and charged with a felony for keying a two-foot scratch in her soon-to-be-ex's pickup truck! To me that's a clear case of law enforcement (and prosecutorial) overreach, but not all the cops (and DA's) agree. Still, the fact remains -- it's stupid to provoke a cop. Don't get mad, get even . . . (or turn the other cheek, depnding on your beliefs).
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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"But I can understand why Gates reacted the way he did given his age and experience as a black man in America."
And also coming home from a flight/trip tired and irritable.
This is also an issue for people who simply can't be polite due to mental health or other issues. A cop needs to be a pro and rise above name calling and challenges to his motives.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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A "safe" conclusion that I have no close african-american freinds and might be racist, and we have never met? Thats safe? Its f*#king assinine. pm sent...
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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Was there a black guy involved? If so then it was his fault. Especially if he has a PHD.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:03pm PT
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"We hold our law enforcement personnel to a higher standard than we do those with whom those LEO's come in contact."
As we should. It's their profession and if they cannot remain professional, then they should not be in that line of work. And for a host of other, more important reasons.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 06:03pm PT
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blahblah,
So because you are white and were once accused of stealing in a bar you think you understand.
Gates was not in a bar. He was inside his home. The police came into his home.
You have not had long experience of people repeatedly discriminating against you and suspecting you and people like you because of your race. If you had, you may have reacted differently.
blahblah, you say that when you were accused of stealing cigars that you were "shocked" and "dumbfounded." That's a privilege of being white, or at least not black. Enjoy it and carry on.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:05pm PT
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t*r,
My daughters both attended UC Davis, and had to take the sort of course you describe. They both thought it was the most worthless course they had ever taken. (Well, until my older daughter had to take some education courses). Professional victimhood is no way to get anything but victimized.
I still think the cop acted wrongly -- and stupidly -- but he was not alone in doing so.
John
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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atchafalaya, I don't think you are racist, and I didn't say you were! I don't even think that the cop was racist. I just don't think you understand Gates' reaction. If you sent a pm, I didn't get it.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
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Quick question... How many of you get a little annoyed when you're carded buying alcohol or smokes. Be honest. I worked in a mini mart when I was in school... Most people do, regardless of age. Ask people for ID for a credit card purchase? A LOT of people get annoyed.
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HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:28pm PT
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"We hold our law enforcement personnel to a higher standard than we do those with whom those LEO's come in contact."
Should a Harvard educator not be held to a higher standard as well?
I think mistakes were made on both sides, but if you have never become angry with someone screaming in your face then hats off to you.
The fact is the officer received a call for service, with a suspect description. He then went to the house, found a person or persons (who happened to be the homeowner) matching the description and questioned them. The homeowner could have showed ID, then said thank you for coming so quickly. Instead he threw a tissy fit and ended up getting arrested.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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Okay... I got the pm.
Here goes: Sometimes I mouth off here on the Taco, say stupid things and get my ass handed to me, but usually not this fast. In his pm, atchafalaya demonstrated to my satisfaction that he has close longstanding friends who are black (more than one). So I was wrong. I admit to being a f*#king idiot on this and publicly apologize to atchafalaya.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
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I do too, Rox. Get annoyed when they card. It's just human nature. I was super annoyed not too long ago when buying $20 worth of pizza and got carded for using debit/credit. I can understand being a bit annoyed if I've locked myself out of my house and then Police are harassing me, on top of that. So, I don't necessarily take his actions as "Oh, you're harassing the black man..." so much as the way a lot of us might act.
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HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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"I was super annoyed not too long ago when buying $20 worth of pizza and got carded for using debit/credit."
Know your consumer rights, the agreement with the card companies says the businesses cannot card you if the back of the card is signed.
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