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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:11pm PT
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The Ehrnhart thing is fair game, why not? I was thinking too about all the so-called "extreme" things people do all the time, comparitively speaking and get a complete pass. Plain old downhill skiing'll kill ya too. No safety ropes there. Or just walking out the door in the morning. Objective and subjective risks are all around us, all the time.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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right, so how come soloing gets a bad rap? where's the line? maybe there isn't one who knows, but it's an interesting question.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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I think it's because people feel threatened by others who take risks that they see as unnecessary. I think it's a fear reaction. "That is scary to me so I must denounce it." There is certainly an element of ego for some people. I have had numerous experiences of soloing on climbs or on peaks where other "climbers" said mean things to me because (in my opinion) they simply felt threatened that someone was soloing on a route that they felt challenged on with a rope.
The best was on SAR in 1999 while soloing Cathedral Peak. "You can't be on the same route as we are. There's no way. Why....why really....you are just being reckless. It is people like me who end up having to rescue people like you." An hour later of course I was back in the Meadows and he was probably one pitch higher on the peak. I took a variation well away from him and his partner so that they didn't feel like I was climbing over them, but that didn't seem to irk him any less.
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sully
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:45pm PT
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Just caught ABC promo before commercial: "It killed their pioneer, so why are they still climbing?"
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:08pm PT
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A promo has to be a sound byte designed to keep the channel selector
unclicked during the advertisement. Question is, did they find an appropriate
answer to their question?
More generally:
When a propositions like these come up it is important how pressed for time
they are and how responsible the news organization is. If they are really
pressed for time you may be able to make a deal. In this case you might specify
there will be no demonstration of someone falling and no other possibly
dangerous activity. For instance no soloing at substantial elevation with all
depictions down very near the ground. Indeed for soloing i would require
footage shows the climber down climbing.
Also if all of the verbal input from you is along the direction you think
important they will have little else with which to work - when pressed for time.
If the news organization is responsible they may keep their bargain. It has
happened. I did once suggest I could agree and then drop out leaving them
hanging. Jim advised me with his best lawyerly monotone, "You don't want to
do that."
As has been mentioned when these things are forced upon one it is a tough
call. On the positive side it does give you a chance to learn how to handle
these things.
There is no 100% win.
Edit:
The post below suggests this was brought off responsibly.
Now for the hard stuff. Why does ABC think someone getting killed is newsworthy?
And if we bring this off and keep it low key, do we really want to condition
ourselves and the public to accept free soloing deaths?
Do we accept it?????
More than 500 posts suggests we have some reservations.
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murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:10pm PT
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The segment seemed harmless to me, and the focus on "what makes free soloing worth it, if anything?" is inevitable, given that that's the question that 90% of the viewers will have on hearing about what JB was famous for. Nice footage and images. It seemed respectful enough, and with fewer blunders than I expected.
I recorded it off the air, in case that's of any use to anyone.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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hey there say, please forgive me if i am being rude... but in a way, from what i've accidetnly learned, i really think these news-show guys are just wanting the money for a big story to cash in on this subject being "up for play".... unless i am really off base here, and i appologize...
meaning, as you have noted, it seems that they have seen that john bachar is a big name, so they figure to draw on it...
(i usually never prejudge this way, but i have seen this happen to many times and it is very sad for the folks that really wanted a true story shown---the stories are never for the good of the "big name" or the person that in spotlighted (i appologize, now, if i have made a mistake, as i surely don't see that many news-stuff nowadays, as i have no tv cable and we don't get stuff out here, without)...
well, the story-reporters, they perhaps may put a few good notes so not to cause a riot, but that seems to a small say, only... the real families and people have so much to say, but it is "edited out" and they are later shocked, or, what they said has been twisted or worded wrong... makes one afraid to talk to reporters, or the news-shows...
hmmm, i always wondered why they have to keep what the real folks say, unused---i mean, they are getting the money for their work-pay, why must do that??? is it 'cause they say, sometimes, that it is due to "air time"---but that does not seem to be a reason to twist words, does it, or change the affects of them?... :(
well, just sharing what i learned due to some epilepsy stories and such, that had needed to be in the news, when folks needed support, but they turned out to be changed, in the end result, or canceled, when folks needed to keep some info private, such as names, etc of family members...
and also:
i learned this back from when lane frost died... the regular media didn't even know WHO he WAS, 'til they saw the huge impact his death had, and how much he was loved.... then, they sought out the bull riders, etc, and such...
also, they did that movie, but never stayed true to his life or what his folks wanted...
they even showed his death, (even more off-base than twisting words) by displaying him saluting the crowd, after turning his back on the bull, (as being vane-glorious, or naive, or as the folks outside of the bullrider's circles, would say: as stupid) since this behavior would naturally be leaving himself open to die from lack of getting out to safety....
that ending of the movie was NOT true at all, if anyone has seen the true footage...
sure was done not for favor of bulls riders... :(
so---only TIME will now tell, tonight, what will be shown.... but say, all.... i wish and pray that something GOOD will come of it... we can at least to do that much...
*** as with lane frost, he FOLKS turned a lot of that around for good, since the "limelight" fell on them----and NOW THE TRUTH is getting out, to erase the harm that the movie did...
not sure if folks will think any better of bull riders, than rock climbers, though... they are very different breeds of folks, in both "sports" (edited so mighty hiker and all will understand--meant that, as a physical activity, not "sports" hahahaha)(yeah, sure don't want to push that word wrongly), or live-styles, rather, as you all well know...
well, i was just sharing., as i saw that you all shared, here.. and i sure never say this kind of stuff usually, but i figured it might help folks that may come here to read (out of curiousity), to perhaps do more study on the folks that do these "free solo climbing" to get a more full-up story....
so ending all my say, here, it is very hard for me to understand why these news-folks do this kind of self-views from self-vision stories, being that they will get paid anyways, for their job...
all for now... sure hope i didn't misalign someone, as i now news-reporters must work hard and love their families, too...
god bless...
say---let us know how all this turns out, folks...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:17pm PT
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hey there say, murcy... WOW... that was a fast result... oh my...
well, say... then it sounded like all went well... oh, that would be a big step forward in being more open to report all aspects of the folks being "spotlighted" or the "situration" etc...
thanks for the shares.... oooops, i reckone i shared for no reason, now....
god blesss.... :)
ooooooooooop, wow, now i just saw what sully posted...
hmmmm... well, i will leave this suject alone... it is beyond my field....
god bless...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
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It seemed like a reasonable piece to me - I have some experience with climbing and the news media.
I quibble about their calling climbing a "sport", and was amused when then said that John "never" placed any bolts. Otherwise, there were no howlers.
As with the obituary in the New York Times, it's fitting that he was commemorated. Short of a substantial piece, there's no way to really sum up someone's life with a few pictures and stories, and do the person justice. Look at the volume of posts here about John over the last week.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:31pm PT
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The no bolts thing suggests, as did Anders earlier, that supertopo is being used by people doing research for stories.
We might keep that in mind.
It is not only news organizations that will be lurking here.
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dfrost7
Social climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:40pm PT
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My only crit is I think it would have been a better story done in Mammoth, Bishop or Yosemite. It was missing a certain "feel" because of this. Yes, it would have been better with another solo climber, but the guy interviewed was pretty unbiased.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:50pm PT
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i couldnt find it...i guess i got thrown off by the time delay. is there a link to it?
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:06pm PT
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I have it and am converting it to an iPod compatible file that's about 12 MB if anyone wants it.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Here's the link to the article at ABC Worldwide News on-line:
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=8061175&page=1
It parallels the television piece, though they spell John's family name "Bacher". (Patrick?)
I don't know if/when they'll actually post the piece - not until after it's run everywhere it normally does, I suspect.
jstan provided an important reminder that SuperTopo is not a private place.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Oh yeah...i read that bit. I was hoping to see the video bit. I was a bit disheartened to see the misspelling of his name.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
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Considering the piece was meant for nationwide, general consumption and ran for all of two minutes, I thought it was pretty good. There were the normal errors of course, like the one about JB never placing any bolts in the rock--but apart from that I quite liked it.
Curt
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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That the piece ( I don't have TV) came off with so few errors is quite probably because of supertopo.
When you read about Iran tomorrow, the same kind of thing may be in play.
Edit to avoid the bump.
Anyone scanning ST does not have to be a rocket scientist to realize this is where the sources are located.
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