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Darryl Cramer
Social climber
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Apr 16, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
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No she said she loves climbers. Not one complaint about them. A couple possible quarry operators expressed some concern about climbers being around so the simplest solution was to kick climbers out. Right now a local access group (Washington Climbers Coalition) and the Access Fund have been talking to her about alternate uses for the land.
I just brought it up because it seemed so odd that she wanted to literally destroy the crag.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 16, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Here's a Supertopian on a perfectly cleaned route. Just enough. The moss is off-route!
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mucci
Trad climber
sf ca
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Apr 16, 2009 - 07:02pm PT
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We call her "Stretch"
Gentle cleansing action for those hard to reach areas.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 16, 2009 - 07:12pm PT
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You better hope it doesn't get hung up on a ledge during a fall!
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mucci
Trad climber
sf ca
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Apr 16, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
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"Stretch" rides the tag up and down like an elevator
Yes it would be difficult to explain a broom up the....
It's all about the reach man.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Apr 16, 2009 - 08:10pm PT
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Hey, Chief - that reminds me of a funny story: ~~ thread drift alert~~
I had an acre and a half up on Nason Ridge at Stevens Pass, WA, and i bought an old 1958 Ford backhoe from a local to clear the land. It spewed diesel something awful, steered by two levers (crawler-style) and had the big 4 wheels with almost-bald tires (he threw in an extra tire for the rubber-boot patched tire on the rig, but it held as long as I had it). The bucket was huge, 6 yards I seem to recall? and the backhoe had a huge bubble in the steel on either side right by the main piston attachment.
I asked the seller: WTF?
He said the guy HE bought it from was an old miner and had blown the piston during excavation. Back then it was a rough road across the pass and into Everett to get a new piston. He got the part, but when he got back, it was too big.
No problem - he grabbed a stick of dynamite from his mining shack, gauged the explosion needed, broke the stick off, stuffed a fuse in, set and lit it and BOOM, new piston fits!
It' was quite amazing how close the 1-1/2" steel was to the piston...
I guess when the guy died, they had to bring in a bomb squad to deal with the sweating dynamite.
~~end thread drift~~
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apogee
climber
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Apr 16, 2009 - 11:28pm PT
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Coz: "You will be judge as a climber by what you leave behind, and what you leave alone."
Werd.
Unfortunately, there is always someone who will 'develop' a crag that someone else had the better judgement to leave alone.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 17, 2009 - 12:04am PT
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You guys sound like you're all from the southwest. Not everywhere is like that. There are plenty of places that reqire a little bit more work than the average crag in California or Colorado or Arizona.
If the mantra of "leave no trace" ruled in the Northwest, there would be no climbs below about 6,000 ft. Squamish? Nope, nothing there. Index? Nah, nothing there...
Proper use of a Chouinard alpine hammer
"The Rod of Undeniable Submission" aka a four-foot crowbar
Championship curling...
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Apr 17, 2009 - 12:06am PT
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Where's Off White when you need him - to show pix of cleaning the crag on his property....
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:09am PT
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When it comes to route cleaning at Squamish, I draw the line at tactical nuclear weapons.
Though, to comment on the original post, "develop" and "climb" are two words that should never be used in the same paragraph. Certainly not if the public, landowners, or land managers are likely to read it.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:16am PT
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What was that Squampton 5.8 cleaned with an air compressor over how many months?
Now where is that CascadeClimbers.com thread....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:29am PT
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I would hazard an educated guess that one of the more sordid tales of 'development' occurred at the venerable Castle Rock in Leavenworth in the 60's. Certain NW icons felt that photographic opportunities would be greatly improved by the removal of a number of trees on the big ledge separating the Lower and Upper rocks. We're not talking slide alder here but trees of at least 18-20" I recall at least 3-4 victims! Oh, for the good old days.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:32am PT
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my rules are
only destroy what you can with you bare hand
and
a bush in a crack is gonna get whacked
just use the ol Boy Scout method, leave it better than when you found it.
sometimes nature makes a mess, so if you can clean it to look more natural, that is good kharma.
if you feel guilty, then you are probably gonna get a ticket.
the approach trails are worse than the rock damage.
so start your trails from the bottom up, so you can whack in secrecy.
leave blank sections every 100 feet.
this screws up the rangers.
when you are almost done, connect the dots and leave it for a month.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:33am PT
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I know some areas (east coast and pacific NW just to name a few) ....these areas things just grow and grow;...more agressive cleaning is called for......out here in the desert, it's simple;......we just start at the bottom and end at the top.....if it can be cleaned by hand or foot and it needs to be, ....do it.....dangerous loose holds/plates/blocs are just pitched off by hand or food,.......The misconception that ALL climbing routes have to be licked clean and like a teflon frying pan is something I personally don't buy into;....a little loose rock, grit and choss is good for the soul, a character builder, and just makes the climbs more exciting and memorable........climbing on "perfect" rock all the time gets old and boring........
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:43am PT
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from a Legal standpoint, having "tools" might turn an infraction into a mister meeny.
and it really pisses of the tree fuzz, i found this out the hard way, but you know what, i either have a warrant or a nice ranger because
the ticket i got has vanished off the system, so i think i really lucked out.
so just be reasonable, so if you do get caught, it will not be with chain saws.
then you have a better chance of not getting tooled.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Apr 17, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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a couple areas along the Humboldt coast were cleaned with a power washer. After that the climbs stayed clean and climbable. In mossy/grassy/green areas I suggest a 12% bleach solution and a lot of it. In fact, if you can, set up a 55 gallon drum on top and let it slow drip to ensure that vegetation never returns. Flame throwers do wonders but the soot does require a little scrubbing after.
I draw the line at DDT though...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 17, 2009 - 10:17am PT
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I love it how tools who are blessed with copious ammounts of perfect rock allways feel the need to tell the folks who only have choss that they can't climb.
Same thing happens with the bolt issue. The gunks for instance are blessed with several thousand gear protected climbs so naturaly gunks climbers feel that it is their duty to bust balls and decry bolts at areas that would have few to no routs without bolts.
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 17, 2009 - 10:31am PT
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It all gets back to common sense.
See the belayer against the tree? This went ground up.
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This one didn't. Before and after pics.
after
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This one went ground up.
Check out the ice axe for digging hummocks out or planting in mud.
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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Apr 17, 2009 - 11:28am PT
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"sometimes nature makes a mess, so if you can clean it to look more natural, that is good kharma"
Are you people for real? I always knew that, in general, people are completely out of touch with nature, but I somehow thought climbers were a little better.
I am disgusted...the before and after photos make me sick.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Apr 17, 2009 - 11:37am PT
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That comment about nature and "kharma" is really quite unbelievable.
I can only hope that Dr Sprock is trolling
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