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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 26, 2008 - 11:58am PT
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Does any one have an opinion on what "mortgage assistance programs" are for real?
Anything coming soon?
There are a lot of scams out there right now, I get a few calls every day from so-called "save your home from foreclosure" plans and they all want some money up front.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Dec 26, 2008 - 12:32pm PT
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Why not sell your business and meet your contractual obligations? Nobody forced you to buy a home instead of rent.
Guess that is hard to understand for somebody who asks for all cash up front to pay for what he sells.
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salad
climber
Escondido
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Dec 26, 2008 - 02:28pm PT
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John,
I have a friend in the mortgage business, I can ask him if he knows anything legit about these "mortgage assistance programs".
I also know someone on the board at the Bank of Escondido. I can see if they know anything as well.
It will probably take a few days to get a response.
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mottaaa
Trad climber
tucson
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Dec 26, 2008 - 02:40pm PT
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I don't know what your main source of income is, John, but I work in the construction industry, an industry driven by bank loans. Where do the banks get off making millions, or is it billions, of dollars of high risk loans and then when it comes back to bite them in the ass they take no responsibility in making the loans. Instead, they freeze up the loan process. Projects come to a halt or never leave the ground. Then they call me to find out where there money is and I have to tell them I have no work. I've been paying my mortgage for the last 6 years and a previous mortgage for 8 years before that. The banks played a major role in the economy's decline/collapse and they take no responsibility for it. Granted, we, as individuals are responsible for making sound financial decisions about what we can afford, but the fact that these high risk loans were made raises some serious ethical issues about how banks do business. The worst part is, those of us who were able to pay our bills up to this point are made to pay for the banks irresponsible and down right greedy business decisions.
I hope this makes sense, I'm a bit pissed off. I'm an idependent contractor and 2007 was my best year ever and now I'm scraping tooth and nail to keep a roof over my familys' head.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Dec 26, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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you are right about risky bank loans and the like, but it's a bit more complex than that. many of the major financial institutions, in their various forms, sought out new and sexy ways to make money, and with the deregulation of the financial industry, they were allowed to do so.
morgatges that were re-sold and then bundled together into "securities" (i.e. something that could be bought and sold, or invested in by others), and then what were essentially bets, and then highly leveraged bets, placed upon the performance of those morgtage securities, are mostly what has brought down the financial industry (as i understand it).
ever wonder why you heard so many radio commercials for so many years, wanting to give you a better loan for less money? well the engine that drove both the subprime morgatge industry and the morgatge refinancing industry was a combination of the perpetually low interest rates and the widespread international interest in investments in the US housing market, and their combination made it easy to lend money, and then easy to sell the loan off, absolving the original lender of the risk associated with the loan itself.
so when you hear right wingers crying about regulation, what you should be hearing is people who want large institutions to be able take greater risk complaining that to do so is not allowed, and when you hear people calling for tighter and smarter regulation of the financial industry, what you should be hearing is people saying that the banks shouldn't take so much risk, because it translates into risk for the greater economy, and the rest of us as well.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Dec 26, 2008 - 03:00pm PT
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Does any one have an opinion on what "mortgage assistance programs" are for real?
Talk to your lender. They may have the right to modify and may decide to do so, if they think you will pay.
There are a lot of scams out there right now, I get a few calls every day from so-called "save your home from foreclosure" plans and they all want some money up front.
Is there some reason that you expect money up front to pay your employees and yourself for making a product, but somebody who is merely providing a service should do so for free? Should service providers all have to work for the government and be paid by tax-payers?
Are we supposed to be entitled to services, but not goods, in your mind?
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Gene
climber
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Dec 26, 2008 - 05:05pm PT
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Bachar,
Whoever holds the paper on your house really doesn't want to own it. Most lenders will lose $$$ on the deal. Their costs include legal fees (in house or otherwise), appraisal, marketing, and tons of I-dotting, T-crossing overhead. To say nothing of having to place your house on a way over-supplied market. The lender is better off with you in the house than out - as long as they are convinced you are doing your level best. Talk to the lender. Find ONE person to be your contact. Convince that person that you are making a good faith effort to meet your obligation. Make that person your advocate. Turn on your obvious charm. Remember, that Big Ole Bank is staffed by people who, by the grace of god, could be in your shoes (you know the type of shoes I mean).
A third party acting as your agent for $$$ may not be in your best interest. Most can only do what you can do, but your costs will only be on your phone bill.
Working with them will have better results than working against them IMHO. My unsolicited $0.02.
gm
Edit: What Fattrad said while I was composing.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 26, 2008 - 05:31pm PT
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Thanks everybody for the advice - it is MUCH appreciated.
I know most of this stuff already. The H4H, HUD government programs in place won't help me right now ( I don't qualify - slight technicalities I won't go into).
I would sell my house if I could actually walk away with $ 0 - unfortnately I would actually have to pay money if I sold it.
I have tried in good faith to do all the things fattrad noted above. They don't want to hear any of it. That's why I threw up that sarcastic letter draft at the start of this thread.
I think I'm digging the Vegas style approach Mr. Robinson. It's damn cold up here...
Tradisgood - great advice buddy. Want to go free soloing sometime? I didn't think so...
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Dec 26, 2008 - 05:43pm PT
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"Tradisgood - great advice buddy. Want to go free soloing sometime? I didn't think so... "
hahaha
Real bummer to hear about this, JB. Times are tough all over and it sucks. As much as I detest my job, I'm grateful to have one and do my best to grit my teeth, do the best job I can and make them appreciate me while I show that I appreciate my job. It's tough, however, to read and hear about friends who are struggling so much. It must be frustrating as hell to not be able to get any of the help promised you for things like this. That's how it usually works tho, right? Ugh! Hopefully this all works out for you.
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unnamable
climber
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Dec 26, 2008 - 10:14pm PT
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John:
In the securities industry (stocks, bonds), there's strict compliance with a so called "suitability" rule. Suitability means that before recommending an investment, a broker is required to gather financial information from the client (annual income, risk tolerance, age, amount of indebtedness). Only then can a broker provide advice. Moreover, that advice has to mesh with the information gathered. If a broker ignores the information, say for example, recommends shorting naked call options to an unsophisticated grandmother living on a fixed income, the broker can be sued and dollars recovered.
It seems to me that there was no such "suitability" requirement in place in the mortgage industry. Mortgage brokers earned commissions with every loan pushed through and unsuitable loans were offered. If the mortgage industry was subject to the same suitability requirements that the securities business was and is subject to, the business wouldn't have gotten so out of hand.
If you're upside down now, chances are that someone sold you an unsuitable loan. So I hope you ignore the posters here who try to argue that it all boils down to the buyer, as in "buyer beware". There were a lot of snake oil salesman in the heyday of the market. My guess is that you were dealing with a salesperson more interested in pushing the loan through than gathering information and discussing more moderate terms with a larger margin of safety.
Gene, Couchmaster, Fattrad, Salad et al offer some good advice. I hope you can work it out with the bank. So hang in there, be tough, and you'll pull through stronger than ever.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 27, 2008 - 12:27am PT
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John, I appreciate that your original post was born out of frustration. You certainly don't want to do anything that will potentially expose you to criminal complaint.
However, I would counsel patience.
We are about to embark on a different gov't, which seems to be very interested in helping people in difficulty with their homes. Who knows what help might become available?
I agree with other posters that the unsolicited offers are only a way to separate you from the little money you have, with little hope of result.
Get creative in terms of money generation. I haven't seen posts about the "Bacher Climbing Clinics". I'm positive they would be popular and lucrative. I can help you set up a series at Stoney. You don't even have to climb.
But mainly, don't do anything irrevocable, and continue to contact your lender.
=
Once upon a time in China, there lived an Emperor who owned a majestic white stallion, the finest beast in all his Kingdom. One night, a thief tried to slip in and steal the horse, but was captured by the palace guards and thrown into the dungeon.
The next morning, he was dragged before the Emperor's court. "How dare you," bellowed the Emperor, "lay hand on my royal steed! Jailor, put this thief to death!"
Immediately, the thief bowed deeply. "Your judgement is peerless and wise, O Emperor," he calmly replied, "but my life is of little value. I should offer you a gift before I depart. Your mount is quite a fine one, but if your eminence would spare my life for just a year and a day, I swear to you I can teach that horse to sing hymns!"
The court burst in to laughter at that, but the Emperor was intrigued. After all, you didn't get to his high position by turning down freely offered gifts, no matter how far-fetched they seem. To the surprise of all, the Emperor quickly accepted the offer.
As they were leaving the chambers, the jailor whispered to the thief, "You are a fool!"
"I am a fool?" replied the thief, smiling broadly. "Much can happen in a year and a day. The King may die. The horse may die. I may die... and maybe the horse will learn how to sing."
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Dec 27, 2008 - 08:03am PT
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Set up AAC - Acopa Acceptance Corp.
From that you will lease shoes. Establish a lease period that allows the shoes to be resold at the end with a buyout option. Figure in the cost of one resoling and set an interest rate of say 12%. (If the lessee does not buy out, then dealer will sell or lease to climbing gyms - crappy old used shoes expected there.)
Arrange dealer financing so that they have massive inventories - all sizes, multiple colors, styles etc. Maybe have iPod dock option, or altimeter option.
Make crappy shoes that won't last more than 3 years - maybe you are already there.
Once you have enough shoes leased, turn AAC into a bank and ask for TARP funding. You will get 5% money - preferred stock which will jump after 3 years to 9%.
Put all your workers in a union (Obama loves them). Establish a retirement plan that you could not possibly meet.
Go to Congress and ask for money (drive a beater van running on veggie oil - don't fly your jet).
Oh, yeah. About your mortgage, pay it off from proceeds when AAC refinances your house. There are a lot of guys out there like you. You can refi them, too. If they don't pay, foreclose on them.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dec 27, 2008 - 09:19am PT
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"want to go free soloing sometime?" Good one John, I'm just picturing above smart azz chalking up at the base gettin' ready to DIE! Think he'd/she pay up front for "service provided assistance" from you? Hope things work out one way or the other for you bro! Some people fail to see the whole picture, but want to put in their 3 cents worth.
Peace
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 27, 2008 - 11:16am PT
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Thanks again all. I put up this thread not only for me but for guys like Cosmic and others facing the same problem.
I ain't going "Vegas" yet - don't even have enough gas for the chainsaw...ha ha
Soloing lessons? Pay up front? Sounds good to me - don't think that's going to bring home the bacon.
I wonder what we can expect from the new administration as far as mortgage relief goes?
More expansion of the H4H HUD programs out there? Lower interest rates? Grace periods during the "financial recuperation" period ahead?
Think home values will increase anytime soon? One year, two years?
Maybe some mortgage/finance gurus out there will chime in!
Happy New Year everybody - see ya' at the crags, JB
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 27, 2008 - 11:48am PT
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John, if there's just some way you could coax that mammoth volcano to erupt ahead of schedule, the whole problem could be solved with your homeowner insurance.
"In the securities industry (stocks, bonds), there's strict compliance with a so called "suitability" rule. Suitability means that before recommending an investment, a broker is required to gather financial information from the client (annual income, risk tolerance, age, amount of indebtedness). Only then can a broker provide advice. Moreover, that advice has to mesh with the information gathered. If a broker ignores the information, say for example, recommends shorting naked call options to an unsophisticated grandmother living on a fixed income, the broker can be sued and dollars recovered.
It seems to me that there was no such "suitability" requirement in place in the mortgage industry. Mortgage brokers earned commissions with every loan pushed through and unsuitable loans were offered. If the mortgage industry was subject to the same suitability requirements that the securities business was and is subject to, the business wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. "
Yeah, even Bernie Madoff required investors to have piles of money before he allowed them to invest in his ponzi scheme!
There's really little difference. Certainly mortgage brokers were supposed to determine folks could afford loans. I've noticed when brokers sell private placements for startup companies that aren't top drawer, they have a way of getting the buyer to answer the questions right and not check the answers.
Peace
Karl
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 27, 2008 - 12:00pm PT
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If the government keeps giving bailout money to the mortgage providers, won't the mortgage providers now have less incentive to help homeowners keep their mortgages?
They'd rather have some kind of mortgage instead of a foreclosure right? Now if someone forecloses it's no big deal - they get bailed out?
Seems somewhat counterproductive/backwards to me - or am I missing something here?
If you could help people keep their mortgages and not foreclose then the bank (or mortgage provider) wouldn't need a bailout?
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Dec 27, 2008 - 12:19pm PT
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Ummmm,when the bank repo's your car,or forecloses on your mortgage,they sell the asset for what they can get and you still owe the rest.Sounds like a great idea to increase the spread then.
For any jackass who would willingly destroy a home they can't afford as retribution against whatever,all I can say is....I hope the next day you find a government program in your mailbox to help you with your mortgage.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 27, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
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Any opinions on what Obama has planned? What is most likely?
Good stuff fattrad, financial free soloist...heh heh
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