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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:30pm PT
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"or those who lost their homes due to unscrupulous lenders"
Those who lost their homes have no one to blame but themselves... It's not the bank's fault, not the governments fault, etc... You're making the largest purchase of your life - read the f*#king contract and fine print. Sheesh! Banks make money on *all* loans. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in business.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2008 - 09:06pm PT
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"Those who lost their homes have no one to blame but themselves... It's not the bank's fault, not the governments fault, etc... You're making the largest purchase of your life - read the f*#king contract and fine print. Sheesh! Banks make money on *all* loans. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in business."
Most of it is gibberish. People work, they have families, etc. I went to real estate school and I had to look up the majority of the stuff on those contracts and loans. People rely on their lenders, their agents etc for help and advice. They say things like "translate that into english for me." They are incredibly vulnerable.
The same thins is true in a hospital, but people still blame the doctor when the procedure they were talked into doing goes wrong. If a doc says "the surgery is no problem" when it is actually pretty high risk compared to other forms of treatment you hold them accountable. When a lender tells you a loan is "no problem" when it is why shouldn't they bear some of the blame?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:18pm PT
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The bailout seemed fishy and I don't mean like Russ.
WTF, people have been predicting this meltdown for a LONG time and all of a sudden we need to give a lame duck administration 700 billion dollars with no oversight or transparancy or any assurance it will help the little folks getting bKed while Wall Street execs get golden parachutes while they criminally ran their corps into the ground.
That this would blow up was not a mystery. Yet suddenly, like the partriot act, we must sign our lives away within days without reading the fine print just as congress is going on recess. I cry foul and bullsh#t. If the economy tanks because we wait to consider a REAL solution that not the final robbing of the american people by the wall street class then they can friggin eat the "Market knows best" philosophy that got us here and choke on their own vomit. We can loan each other money or new firms can fill the vacuum. Unless the criminals are investigated and punished (they friggin knew) and the little people given a chance to continue to pay, I'm happy this dog went down.
And shame on the democrat wimps for just pushing "suggestions" on Paulson, letting the current crooks keep their millions, and otherwise kissed Bush and GOP butt and still got hung out to dry.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:20pm PT
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"Talk about idiotic.
Banks do not lend money that they don't have. The closing would fail on such a transaction.
Banks do not ask the government to bail them out! "
Of course they do. You know about fractional reserve banking (which is ALL banking) so why be coy?
If Banks do not ask the government to bail them out, then what are we talking about here?
Peace
karl
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:47pm PT
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The administration leaves us two major legacies which we now have no choice but to deal with, and no good options for doing so. Both were pointedly deliberate, entirely preventable, and ultimately based on the twin fantasies of a democracy and a market which merely needed to be set 'free'.
This has been a naivete of astonishing scope only matched by the scale on which American might and influence have be squandered under its sway.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:49pm PT
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I am glad. Why should those of us who live within our means pay more so those that were greedy are allowed to keep their ill-gotten gains.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
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And why are those people overwhelmingly republican?
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
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Look, we've now hashed out ad nauseam of the cause and effect of this series of events.
It should now be discussed of "what next" and how to fix the problem correctly.
Can they really do it?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:55pm PT
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:58pm PT
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just passing thru
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:25pm PT
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The root causes of today's crash are just starting to get traction in the Conservative press.
This video is posted at a Conservative blog, believe what you want from it, google the key phrases it points out and see for yourself--the Dems are up to their elbows in this mess.
http://www.patriotguru.com/?p=177
Contact your Congressperson before Thursday’s second attempt and say NO to a Bailout!!!
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:26pm PT
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Werner - The best comment on the thread.
You're in the sh#t. How you got there doesn't matter, because you can't reverse the moves.
Blaming yourself, your partner, the weather, whatever. Doesn't get you out!
Karl edit:
Karl, you are smart enough to know better. So stop and think it through. Fractional reserves is what makes banks, insurance companies, etc. work. If you had to put up $1,000,000 to drive a car to insure yourself, you would have to have your clients pick you up. But there would not be any client's because they would not be driving either.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:32pm PT
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Healy, show me some documentation.
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Trippel40
Social climber
CO
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:34pm PT
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Agree with it or not, it looks like the reason it failed was because too many reps have to go back to their constiuents for reelection shortly and sure weren't going to go back with this on their records.
It rare to see the actual contituents possible wrath (rightly or wrongly) holding sway over special interests, both parties leadership, and the whitehouse. Son of a gun, for better or worse this democracy thing sometimes works.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:39pm PT
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"You're in the sh#t. How you got there doesn't matter, because you can't reverse the moves.
Blaming yourself, your partner, the weather, whatever. Doesn't get you out!'
Its not about blame, it is about understanding what got us into the situation. If you don't understand the problem, then you can't fix it.
We cannot solve problems with the same level of consciousness that created them. - Albert Einstein
I believe what got us into the problem is the consciousness of something for nothing which is what fractional lending is. It is also what the stock market is based on. These have to be radically changed as our money needs to be based on something. I do not have the knowledge to solve this problem, but I know the bailout wont do it.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:57pm PT
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This youtube clip titled: ' Economy : Burning down the House'
seemed to explain the unexplainable of this economic fuss to my climber brain and did it with music dubbed in. Very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Banks do not lend money that they don't have. The closing would fail on such a transaction.
Let us know!