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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 19, 2008 - 07:17pm PT
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Hope I don't have to start eating bears and possums and such again. Skinning bears is hard work and it takes forever to get the stink off.
You ever seen a San Gabriel Mountain squirrel? They're really scrawny and this drought hasn't helped matters much. It's gonna be nasty.
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Binks
Social climber
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Sep 19, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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Bush bankrupted everything he touched before he ran the WH. Now his greatest accomplishment is bankrupting the entire nation, and starting two useless wars. GOP should go extinct because of this.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 19, 2008 - 07:31pm PT
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Bush is a neocon, not a conservative.
What we need now is a true fiscal conservative and somebody who will go after corruption.
Pardon Elliot Spitzer and take his leash off, cut him loose.
The last thing we need right now is another fiscal socialist like Bush.
(T2 max....)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 19, 2008 - 07:42pm PT
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Yeah, I agree to that Fatty if you don't mind someone like Spitzer looking over your shoulder. No offense, buddy, but you're a neocon. I don't trust neocons in positions of monetary power. But like I said...Spitzer.
Man he was on to this too...too bad they took him down.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 19, 2008 - 07:44pm PT
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Here's what Elliot "Ness" Spitzer was on to....
CEOs to Eliot Spitzer: "Give It Back? No Way!"
Businessweek.com JUNE 9, 2003
It's not every day that a company thumbs its nose at New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. But that's what the Walt Disney (DIS ) Co. board did when it rejected a request from a small shareholder that Chairman and CEO Michael D. Eisner give back money he pocketed from buying 30,000 shares in the 1999 initial public offering of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. The board concluded that Eisner got his stock because of his personal financial ties to Goldman, not because of any influence he wielded at Disney.
Spitzer seeks $100M from Grasso
May 24, 2004: 5:38 PM EDT By Krysten Crawford, CNN/Money staff writer
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer filed a lawsuit against former New York Stock Exchange Chairman Richard Grasso and the exchange Monday, seeking the return of some of Grasso's $187 million pay package. The civil lawsuit, which also names former NYSE director Kenneth Langone, came after a four-month probe by Spitzer's office determined that the board of the NYSE was misled about parts of Grasso's pay.
Insurers' New Risk: Eliot Spitzer
Business Week OCTOBER 15, 2004 By Marcia Vickers
The New York AG's suit against insurance broker Marsh & McLennan and other heavyweights may change the way the industry does business America's biggest insurers have found themselves in the midst of a scandal that could change the very nature of the business. On Thursday, Oct. 14, New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer charged Marsh & McLennan (MMC ), the huge financial-services firm and world's largest insurance broker, with fraud. In a civil complaint filed in New York State Supreme Court, Spitzer alleges that the firm engaged in bid-rigging, price-fixing, and accepted payoffs from insurers.
Spitzer: UBS improperly put clients into costly accounts
By Bloomberg News | December 13, 2006
NEW YORK -- UBS AG was sued by New York State over allegations that Europe's largest bank defrauded thousands of brokerage clients out of tens of millions of dollars by steering them into costly accounts they didn't need. Attorney General Eliot Spitzer claimed UBS Financial Services Inc., a unit of the Zurich-based company, improperly shifted customers into accounts that charge fees based on assets under management rather than commissions, according to a complaint filed yesterday in New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan. In the complaint, Spitzer claimed UBS charged a 91-year-old woman more than $35,000 for making just four trades over two years, or $33,000 more than she would have paid in a traditional account.
Spitzer accuses H& R Block of defrauding investors
Posted 3/15/2006 11:12 AM By Sandra Block, USA TODAY
Four years ago, H&R Block (HRB), facing criticism from consumer groups over some of its practices, launched a program called the Express IRA that it said would encourage low-income people to save for retirement. Wednesday, New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer said that program had done precisely the opposite. In a $250 million lawsuit, Spitzer said Block defrauded hundreds of thousands of people by persuading them to invest in a "poorly performing, fee-ridden 'retirement vehicle' " that was guaranteed to lose money.
Spitzer widens insurance probe
BBC Saturday, 13 November, 2004, 00:33 GMT
New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has sued a second US insurer for allegedly rigging the insurance market to fatten its profits. Mr Spitzer filed the lawsuit against Universal Life Resources in the New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan.
Spitzer Files Suit Against Insurer Liberty Mutual Group
Fox News Friday, May 05, 2006
NEW YORK — New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer on Friday charged Liberty Mutual Group, the sixth largest U.S. property casualty insurer, with rigging bids and making payoffs to steer business its way.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 19, 2008 - 07:55pm PT
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fattrad. i'm sure it's not bad @ all for you and your amigos. the top 2% never suffers..
In a matter of weeks, an investment banking industry that survived the Civil War and the Great Depression virtually vanished from the scene, weighed down by faulty mortgages and other debts.
ks
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Wheatus
Social climber
CA
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Sep 19, 2008 - 08:39pm PT
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A national debt of 9 to 11 trillion and growing: this hurts the dollar's value and some day the Asian countries that finance that debt will want higher interest rates. This will result in an inevitable enormous tax burden on young workers and future generations.
A lower dollar value helps exports and encourages foreign investment in our "fire sale" real estate market. Unlike other countries the US allows foreigners buy real estate outright. All that extra money we spend on oil goes to OPEC nations who in turn will hopefully buy US goods and real estate. Remember the late 70's when OPEC and Asian citizens were buying up real estate everywhere? It seems most gas stations and convenience stores are owned by OPEC and Asian immigrates.
Fortunately, open markets and free trade allow a continuing flow of cash into the US. We have so much land and an abundance of consumers that promotes a near constant cash flow in and out of the US. We have had bumps in the road every ten years but our system seems to bounce back. In the past it seems that our system, as flawed as it appears, is resilient. Luckily, the employment figures so far don't point to a depression.
Unfortunately, the middle and lower incomes pay the biggest price in this mismanagement of the financial markets, out of control federal spending and greedy investors.
My neighbor a Polish WWII holocaust survivor said it best, "Americans have no appreciation of what they have. There are many problems here but it is the best system in the world. Corruption aboard is so bad that that running a business that is not politically connected is almost impossible and so frustrating that people give up. In the US everyone has a chance to do well...you can't get that anywhere else."
So appreciate what you have. Work hard. Finally, be glad your only just miserable....it could be much worse!
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Sep 19, 2008 - 08:41pm PT
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JStan said...."I have thought unemployment was the benchmark to see how far things are going to go"
I have assumed for a long time that unemployment figures are not trustworthy. Its a book that pretty easy to cook.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Sep 19, 2008 - 08:52pm PT
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"Everyone is scrambling. To try and see what will happen. It would seem greatly increased taxes will be one result of George's action".
I was assuming that these actions would be financed by more foreign debt....no?.
The big question I suppose is what is the ability/willingness of China/Japan/Russia to hold unlimited American debt.
Detailed analysis seems pretty thin on the ground?
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 19, 2008 - 08:58pm PT
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I know some of you want a recession for political reasons. Some of you think we're in a recession. There must be two quarters negative growth, and it hasn't happened yet. As of today, the stock market moved up; unemployment is at 6.5%. Inflation is about 5%. We are not in a recession at this point. Now, if you want to run for the hills or jump from the tenth story, go ahead. Me, I'm investing.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:01pm PT
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Holy Cow Bluering....are you OK..... I have to agree with you about Spitzer.
I don't care if he was shagging busloads of Gay hookers in his spare time (as absurd as that sounds....he's not a Family values Republican after all)
He was a rare specimen, a public official who was prepared to stick his neck out a long way in the public interest.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:08pm PT
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I know, it's a NYT article, so Woody and his crew are gonna call it biased:
Congressional Leaders Stunned By Warnings
http://tinyurl.com/3wqm9l
Woody, if you think the market being up today means that everything is fine, you have more to learn about economics than Mr. McCain!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:10pm PT
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We are going to turn into Russia, and China is going to turn into the US, and Africa.
will suffer on as always.
Wait til the airlines need money, then what?
Govt takeover?
People will be flying around like crazy now.
Gold....GOLD!
Money you can dig out of the ground.
But, in 1980 it was at the same price it is at now so WTF over?
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jstan
climber
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:12pm PT
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JH:
Somewhere I posted data showing over the last two quarters sovereign wealth purchases of US debt have fallen 90% or more. 80% of all money saved in the world has been coming to the US for us to borrow. My guess is that will be changing and taxes will have to go up.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:19pm PT
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Jeremy, for the record, he was shagging hot call-girls. On his own dime too.
That's small peanuts though, we need him because he was a hardass who was unafraid to take down establishment corruption. Dem or Repub.
(like McCain/Palin)
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:22pm PT
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MCCAIN AND PALIN: THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE!!!!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:27pm PT
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All the companies that went under were operating at 35 to 1 or better.
Do you think the liquor stores are busy right now?
What a ride!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Sep 19, 2008 - 09:50pm PT
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" MCCAIN AND PALIN: THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE!!!!"
Fun Ny!
That NYT piece said:
"As Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and chairman of the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, put it Friday morning on the ABC program “Good Morning America,” the congressional leaders were told “that we’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.”
Recession? Nawwww
Depression? Ummm, no.
"complete meltdown" sounds a bit more serious than that.
I don't see how the idea of somehow plugging the dyke is going to hold this thing. The dam damned broke, I think.
In the NYT article it also said:
"As he spoke, Mr. Schumer swooped his hand, to make the gesture of a plummeting bird. “You know we’d be lucky ...” he said as his voice trailed off. “Well, I’ll leave it at that.”"
What'd he mean? We'd be lucky if the catastrophe just came and did it's damage? Tabula Rasa? Or was he thinking "we'd be lucky" and then not finishing a thought such as "to avert anarchy."?
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 19, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
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I think the general public is to be commended for not doing a panic run.
I guess a lot of people were educated as to the Great Depression, and acted accordingly.
If everybody had made a run, then nothing the govt does will help.
What little liquidity would get sucked dry and all the banks would collapse.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 19, 2008 - 10:16pm PT
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I didn't say the economy was in good shape. There's turmoil and confusion at the moment, and things could go south, so don't put words in my mouth.
I've lived through two recessions, and I know what they're like. If we go into a recession--particularly a deep one-- you will most definitely recognize the difference between where we are now and where we'll be then. So, wait a bit; and if we go into a true recession, you can jump for joy and run panicky into the street.
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