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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
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Most of our first seven or eight Prime Ministers were Scots. Some were dour Presbyterians. Some drank a lot of whiskey. Some did both. John A. MacDonald was a well-known alcoholic, but an entertaining fellow. He was PM from 1867 - 73, and then some more later. In between we had Alexander MacKenzie. MacKenzie, who was relatively honest but boring, beat MacDonald on corruption having to do with construction of the railway to B.C.
So once MacKenzie said in the House of Commons, to MacDonald "You, sir, are drunk". To which MacDonald replied "Yes, but the people of Canada would rather have MacDonald drunk, than MacKenzie sober."
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Yes, 'tis nice to know, Canada doesn't go off
and preemptively attack sovereign nations. . .
Though sometimes I wonder why they don't come south at
times. . .
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 12:57pm PT
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The polls now suggest that the Conservatives (Harper) are likely to get a minority government. It seems possible that the Liberals (Dion) will have enough seats to form a coalition government with the New Democrats (Layton).
At the start of the election, it looked as though the Conservatives might pull off a majority, but it appears that concerns about the economy in particular have caused them to lose support. Our economy is still doing much better, and our government's finances are in much better shape, but if there's a severe recession in the U.S., as seems likely, Canada will be significantly affected - each country is still the other's main trading partner.
We'll know next Tuesday night.
See all the fun I miss when I go to the FaceLift?
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Chris2
Trad climber
The Gunks to Joshua Tree
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Silly Canadians.
You can't have any type of election without the candidates spending months (years) telling you who they are, spending millions and millions of dollars doing this, the 24 hr. network news programs telling you over and over what the candidates have already told you and the pollsters telling you who is in the lead and who isn't.
And MOST importantly citizens (even on Rock climbing forums) buying into all the above foolishness.
Now, get with the program!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 01:10pm PT
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I have to admit that our elections are usually less entertaining. Sometimes they even discuss the issues.
The leaders of the five parties (Conservative, Liberal, New Democratic, Green, Bloc Quebecois) had a debate last Thursday, the same night as the Biden/Palin debate. I gather it was a close run thing in terms of viewership - substance v amusement.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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As I stated on another thread, the US has casus belli for attacking Canada.
I will paste what I wrote on the 'Sarah Palin: Sleeping with an America-Hating Terrorist' (I was addressing Mighty Hiker, aka Anders)
The real casus belli for going to war with you Canucks is to reclaim the Oregon Country from you thieves (and I don’t care if the British were there first).
That wimp James Buchanan (as Secretary of State, before he was president) capitulated to the Redcoats in The Oregon Treaty in 1846, and by right, under the Manifest Destiny doctrine, the US should have kept all of the territory.
We should take it all back and even go beyond the 54º 40’ and connect the Contiguous United States with Alaska.
To hell with you Canucks.
Heck there are only 33 million of them and they are trying to claim the entire Arctic. I say we team up with Russia and take over Canada.
And Norway and Denmark will also become part of the anti-Canuck alliance. Who do those Canadians think they are anyway? They need rescued from their political system and there is no better men than Bush and Putin to do that.
;-)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 04:36pm PT
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Thatcher has been diagnosed with dementia. Given the examples of Wilson, Roosevelt, Reagan, and Bush II, that may mean she's qualified to be president of the U.S.
It's all of course part of the secret plan. Palin's ancestors were Canadian, and her real goal isn't Alaskan independence, but to join Alaska to Canada. There's a dog-whistle message in all her talk about hockey.
While we're at it, we'll probably take back Washington, Oregon and Idaho (more wolves for the latter), and of course the old northwest and mid-west, which were first settled by coureurs de bois. We're still thinking about whether we want the Louisiana Purchase back, despite Bush's Katrina-inspired attempt to destroy the Cajun community, our secret agents there. Most of it, to be frank, isn't very appealing.
Naturally the blue states in the northeast will be eager to join Canada.
Celine Dion and the Cirque du Soleil were sent to soften you up.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Fifty-four Forty Or Fight!
An early proof that slogans don't win wars. Well, technically, that was a war didn't take place, but if it had, the outcome would have been the same as it was 34 years earlier in the 1812 invasion.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 04:43pm PT
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Ghost has a good point - we've beaten you twice (1776, 1812), so no need to make it best of three.
The Canadian general staff actually drew up plans in the 1930s to invade the U.S. I agree that the military need to plan, but that one was a bit of a stretch. If you don't watch people like that, the next thing you know they'll be invading some banana republic, or Vietnam, or Iraq.
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Ouch!
climber
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Since that German queen appoints the Governor General, who appoints the Senators, does this overload the power into the top end and away from the house of Commons on a national level?
Seems to me that each province has it's unique style of running things. Doesn't that make for a somewhat loose confederation?
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Ouch!
climber
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"The Canadian general staff actually drew up plans in the 1930s to invade the U.S"
Good thing you didn't try to pull that off. We'd have sicced Alvin York on your walleye fillet eating asses.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 05:29pm PT
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The Senate has very limited real power.
Canada is a democratic federation, like the U.S., which means that there's always squabbling over who gets to do what. The biggest differences are that we have two official languages (English and French, or at least the Quebec version of French), or more if you count First Peoples' languages. And of course there are huge historical, cultural, and other differences, for all the superficial similarities.
Ouch! is right about the so-called royal family, which is almost entirely German, starting with George I in 1714. His first language, and the first language of all his successors until at least George V (1910 - 36) was German. All their wives were German. The name of their family was first Hanover, then Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha.
The mother of the current queen, who died a few years ago, was the first British (Scottish, that is - not English) woman to marry into the royal family since the 18th century. Diana Spencer was the second, and first English woman, to do so.
The family renamed itself "Windsor" in 1916, as their marketing department had advised that "Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha" sounded too German. (At the same time, the Canadian town of Berlin, where my mother was later born, renamed itself as Kitchener.) When Kaiser Wilhelm heard, he said "Ha ha. Now I'll go out and see a performance of Shakespeare's play, the Merry Wives of Saxe, Cobourg and Gotha".
Prince Philip, aka Philip Mountbatten, aka Philip von Battembourg, is also German. English is his third language, after German and Greek.
The queen mother, after World War II, instructed her staff that they weren't to bow/curtsey to Germans. She also called prince Philip "The Hun".
I'm all in favour of abolishing the so-called royal family, at least as far as Canada is concerned. But I wouldn't bother actually doing anything about it, given that they're essentially irrelevant.
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perswig
climber
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English is his third language, after German and GREEK?
Anders and Tami, this Gov. Gen. position - elected directly, elected by the majority after an election, elected by the minority ('whip'?), honorary position? Was it concieved as a real check to decisions like calling an election (apparently not, given the history you cite) or other moves by the current leadership? Looking, maybe in vain, for analogous post in the US. Thanks.
Dale
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
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Our governor-general, like the senate, and all federal courts, is appointed by the prime minister. No official check or balance to it. If a prime minister has a majority, he/she can do more or less whatever she/he wants - unlike the U.S., the MPs of a given party HAVE to vote as the party directs, with few exceptions. Plus there's little need to balance/placate a second house.
HOWEVER, in reality there are substantial unwritten checks and balances to what the prime minister does, whether regarding appointments or otherwise. One is ensuring that the members and MPs of the party agree with whatever is done - there have been several caucus revolts over the years. (Look what happened to Margaret Thatcher, and Ralph Klein.) Another is simply public opinion - a prime minister who is perceived as being overly partisan in 'patronage' appointments faces considerable criticism in the news media and public opinion.
There are conventional agreements regarding some appointments, e.g. the bar association is consulted regarding appointments to senior courts, and must approve the qualifications of candidates. But they don't have a veto.
There is talk about having a system of political review and perhaps even approval of at least some senior appointments. We don't want to politicize such things, but it would create some oversight, and rein in overly partisan PMs.
There is also a constitutional check, that we rarely hear about. The governor general (representing the monarch) actually makes the various appointments, on the recommendation of the government. The GG has a five year term. There have reportedly been a few cases where the GG has questioned things the government is doing, and caused it to reconsider.
Another element is that there is more consensus in our politics, and public affairs generally, than you have. With the exception of recognized outright patronage appointments, who come and go with each government, a government would generally know better than to be overly partisan in such matters.
There was a shut down at Atomic Energy Canada's reactors earlier this year, for much-needed and long-planned maintenance. It led to a shortage of certain medical isotopes. The Harper government stepped in and forced them to restart the reactor, and also fired the AECL president, who was appointed by the Liberals years ago, but generally seen as well-qualified. The government received considerable criticism for doing this.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Oct 10, 2008 - 02:41am PT
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Enjoy Thanksgiving and your mercifully short election.
"For they looked in the future and what did they see
They saw an iron road runnin from sea to the sea
Bringin the goods to a young growin land
All up through the seaports and into their hands" CRRT
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 10, 2008 - 04:48am PT
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hey there all.. say, i missed a lot of this...
i WILL be back... got to go to sleep now...
tami:
god bless! and have a very happy and very SPECIAL thanksgiving!
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perswig
climber
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Oct 10, 2008 - 07:03am PT
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Ah. Fascinating, and just leads to more questions. You icebacks ARE odd, comparatively.
Thanks, both of you.
Dale
(...and you were worried this thread didn't have legs, Anders.)
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 10, 2008 - 07:15am PT
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or at least the Quebec version of French
That’s funny. I have heard French people say that they cannot understand a lot of Québécois.
A German queen married to a Greek prince, and the English revere her.
In my nearly seven years of living in Britain, I could never understand how they could let outsiders in to rule them (okay, I actually do understand the old system of arranged royal marriages in Europe).
BTW I am a Jacobite, long live the Stuart Pretender.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2008 - 05:35pm PT
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I have just done my patriotic duty, and voted. Which will at least end the calls from various parties, asking if I've voted, and offering me a ride. (Now if they threw in cookies, or better still an apple...)
I'll report later on the outcome, although I'll be out this evening doing something to do with climbing - perhaps Tami or ghost can pinch hit?
You were probably thinking it was nice and tidy, and very Canadian, for us to limit all election-related discussion to this thread. Think again! I'm inspired by the robustness of democracy in the U.S., and on SuperTopo, and so plan to start innumerable threads tomorrow and afterward, analyzing and opinionating to death every imaginable and some unimaginable aspects of the whole thing. LEB, FatTrad, skipt, HDDJ, healyje, and many others have agreed to help, as they have nothing more to say about the issues or the candidates in the U.S. election, and anyway are getting bored discussing whether Obama's is six more than McCain's, or not.
"Foreign wars are god's way of giving the U.S. geography lessons."
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Oct 14, 2008 - 06:09pm PT
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One thing you gotta admire about the Canadians is they don't clutter the forum up with hundreds of threads on the same election, all saying the same thing, when one will do.
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