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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:51am PT
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"Yeah...or you could grab the jugs and stuff a cam in the crack."
Amen Brother Rove!
rockstar=bolter?
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 30, 2005 - 08:44am PT
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Juan, I wish you luck in your persuit of uh getting up some rocks and getting your own rocks off....
As far as the bolt thing goes, is it really new this year?
I vaguely remember a time when climbers were trying to evolve in terms of meeting the challenge and doing things in better style, a direction that is not entirely lost but certainly lacking.
"I will not be using the new bolt, but I will not be chopping it either. 5 climbers have been killed on Double Cross.
Rockstar "
While I have nothing but the deepest regrets for the family members of those who were killed, should all climbs be made safe? Seems pretty whacked to me that a bolt is placed on such a classic 5.7+...
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2005 - 09:38am PT
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Golsen: While I have nothing but the deepest regrets for the family members of those who were killed, should all climbs be made safe? Seems pretty whacked to me that a bolt is placed on such a classic 5.7+...
The first and second ascentionists of Snake Dike (also a classic 5.7) were able to agree that making the climb safer was a good idea according to Steve Roper. So the second party added some bolts to the 5.4 pitches. Did they know that it would be a "classic"? It seems that they suspected it would be.
While this does not answer the "all climbs" part of your question, I would weigh in on the side that a 5.7 should be safe in order to be considered "classic".
That does not mean that climbers must clip the bolt. If you are a strong climber and want to lay it out there like the FAs, it is your choice. Pretend you did not even see the bolt, just like JDF. Don't use it if you want, but leave it for others that want to experience a classic at what may be their comfortable leading limit.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 30, 2005 - 10:41am PT
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Melissa knows. Karl knows. Watching the show....
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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Mar 30, 2005 - 11:30am PT
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It's a 5.7 but the bolt doesn't protect a 5.7 move,
it protects a 5.3 move!
If you can't make the moves up to the crack, then go back to 5.6's!
So according to the logic of some, bolts should be everywhere,
just don't clip it, if you don't approve of it's location!
That's brilliant!
Let's put bolts next to ALL cracks for all the sport climbers that don't own cams or nuts!
That would be really safe and exciting!
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Mar 30, 2005 - 12:49pm PT
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Mentally challenged ducks in a barrel dancing for the bad man?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2005 - 01:31pm PT
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Before the beginning, after the great war between heaven and hell, God created the earth and gave dominion over it to the crafty ape he called man.
And to each generation was born a creature of light and a creature of darkness, and great armies clashed by night in the ancient war between good and evil. There was magic then, nobility, and unimaginable cruelty. And so it was until the day that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason."
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 30, 2005 - 01:32pm PT
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Here we have a route done in the 60s, with bogus gear, by guys who climbd twice a month. Now we have space-aged gear, folks who climb four times a week, and suddenly there is a "need" to bolt up old, and very elementary, trad routes in the name of "safety."
Safety used to be the responsibility of the leder, not something furnished by the route.
JL
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 30, 2005 - 01:59pm PT
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Largo's comments support the "evolution" I was referring to...Climbers with space aged gear and tiny nuts...
But now you have done it Juan, RC.com is now fired up about it too...
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2005 - 02:13pm PT
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Mr Largo,
I not really sure how long you have been climbing. But routes are in a constant state of evolution. Take last summer for example, we all excited about doing the Vampire again on the Taqhuitz.
But low and behold a team for Michagian was laying seige to the route. Their stupid dog would not stop barking, it was left at the base and was very mad.
So we thought of doing the flakes. So I start up the crack and its way harder than 5.11a. I am thinking 5.11b or c. So I lead the first pitch and end up in a hanging belay on this blank face.
At this point it dawns on me I have taken the wrong route and must be on an old aid line.
Well, it looks like it will go so after bringing up jenny, I head out.
Its pretty hard free climbing but thanks to the nice line of new 3/8" bolts I flashed it rather fast. Eight bolts seemed a little much.
I figure it was easy 5.1ld. I am not sure who established it but some chiseling was involved. Thats cool, its a super route.
So a climb that was and aid line with a little help by someone has evolved into a fantastic sport route.
Someday when you are a little better climber you should go give it a try, its so cool. Way more fun they Lost Arrow Free.
Peace
Rockstar
So back to my evolution theory. Aid Line to Sport Route.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:19pm PT
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one down one to go
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Michael Golden
climber
Mountain View, CA
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:20pm PT
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Batten, you should take a picture, because nobody's going to believe you caught a fish that big without hard evidence.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:38pm PT
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Did Mel just call Largo a mentally challenged duck? ;)
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:44pm PT
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He posted after I made my comment...so I didn't technically violate the Supertopo Rule of Order that says that all of the gumbies have to suck up to the famous guys at all times.
I was considering asking the Rockstar if he was going to have the trophy mounted and hang it above his fireplace though, but I figured that it might be in violation of The Rule. Juan must be having a very proud day.
(Few of us laughing can say that we've never been the duck...Juan's been around much longer than Supertopo.)
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Gnat
climber
Smell A
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:48pm PT
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Batten, you should take a picture, because nobody's going to believe you caught a fish that big without hard evidence.
and
Juan must be having a very proud day.
In case you didn't notice, batten just picked up the hook I already baited. Gotta be one of the oldest hooks around, perhaps because, every few years, it catches so many fish.
But subtlety ain't your guys' strong suit is it?
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:51pm PT
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You know I'm just kidding Mel. I don't have any more sympathy for large fish than I do for small fish. In fact, I think the catch is even more impressive given the fact you were splashing around in the water trying to warn the ducks.
The only downside is that once lunkers that big are caught they're very shy of future lures and tend to stay out of sight for long periods of time. Hopefully, that won't be the case.
I think I'm getting my duck and fish analogies confused.
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crotch
climber
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:58pm PT
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Gnat,
Batten invented that hook you so proudly cast. Unless Gnatten=Batten in which case, I'm wriggling on the line.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 30, 2005 - 02:59pm PT
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clearly this is evolution of a ah different sort...looks like Juan may have got his rocks off afterall...
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Gnat
climber
Smell A
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Mar 30, 2005 - 03:08pm PT
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No he did not. It is an old joke/troll that has been around longer than the internet.
Batten/Rockstar/Etc just used it to troll rec.gumby devotees (an easy group to troll since it appears that few of them actually climb and the ones that do have an exaggerated sense of their abilities). As far as Juan/Batten/Rockstar is concerned, he seems to fall more into the former rather than later group.
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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Mar 30, 2005 - 03:24pm PT
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Has there really been a bolt placed or not?
Is this all BS?
Juanita has got to be joking about chopping holds!
He won't chop the bolt but it's OK to chop holds?
Double Dip (5.6) is "overbolted"?
What kind of sh*t are you smokin' Juan?
and can I get some?
I'm takin' my chisel to Josh this weekend just in case!
And how long have you been climbing John....
at least since you wrote the book!
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