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dirtbag
climber
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Yeah Ed, I guess that would be a little icky.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Floyd, here are several of my posts from a previous thread in 2005 noting that Craig Venter created [synthetic] 'life' in 2002 quite under the radar (if you consider phages to be 'alive') before moving on to attempt the same with a generic, minimal, self-replicating bacterial container. He's a complete maniac and I'm guessing he will succeed in moving up the true creationist ladder of life to bacteria by the end of 2010, certainly by 2012. Creating life - you don't have to be god, you just have to be really smart egomaniac and act like one.
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The real science of Intelligent Design (Synthetic Biology)
And one driven by ego and arrogance. In particular it should be noted that while the creation of a minimal, self-replicating [generic] microbial vehicle will be a remarkable scientific accomplishment, it also carries significant and very dark undertones relative to WMD development. We would all be better off if this work were being accomplished by someone less self-promoting than Venter, who is clearly the Reardon of biological sciences.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051219.wxlife19/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/
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Just to be clear, the reservations I and others have relative to such work is not related to the "ethics" of "creating life", Venter basically already passed that threshold with his [2002] creation of the first replicating synthetic virus (bacteriophage phiX174). Rather, our concerns are based on the obvious WMD implications associated with synthesizing utilitarian microbial vehicles.
[ Note: bacteriophage phiX174 link > [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4636121.stm[/url] ]
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2008 - 06:44pm PT
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Humans may not have the time or materials to easily replicate the 'experiment' which created life.
The experiment involved hundreds of millions, or billions, of years. Earth's surface covered with organic chemicals and liquid water, in virtually infinite combinations. Energy sources - sunlight, chemical reactions, lightning, black smokers, vulcanism, etc.
Us humans have difficulty comprehending the HUGE parameters involved. The only thing we can add to the process to speed it up is intelligence.
Joke: Marx's grave is a communist plot. (Doesn't work for Linen - he hasn't been buried yet.)
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Which came first, a cell or a virus? Viruses (or phages) could not be a stepping stone in the evolution of a cell, for they cannot reproduce without hijacking a cell's machinery. ADDED LATER: They're also much, much less complex.
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L
climber
Soy latte center of the Known Universe
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I think it's a conspiracy by the Guardians of the Universe to keep the secret to creating life out of our hot little human paws...I mean, look at the mess we've made with all the life we have here now.
Shouldn't we clean that up before we're allowed back at the Easy-Bake Oven?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Yeah, EH, you're right. But, at least you presented both sides.
Guess, we may find out someday what really happened, but Life is so much more than a discussion on how it started.
Discussion's are great but arguing opinions vs. actual facts...then you have to argue what really constitutes the facts..been down this road so many times I put up a road closed sign I guess.
I would rather be enjoying peoples company, cooking a new receipe, learning a new song, instrument, how to climb, surf, reading, traveling, working in the garden...I have my new ST name...superficial lrl
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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In fairness to Mighty Hiker's initial comment on Darwin, his book focused primarily on how new species evolve--not on the origin of life.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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"Doesn't work for Linen - he hasn't been buried yet."
-I have seen that wax, it'll sober you right up!
Oh yeah, and a 2-4 (slang, eh?) to Anders on nautical history, I must have dosed off...
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L
climber
Soy latte center of the Known Universe
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Is Lenin entombed in wax?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2008 - 07:03pm PT
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You could say that he's well-preserved!
Floyd: Good point. It's unclear exactly what Darwin's beliefs were later in his life, despite a strong Anglican family. He doesn't seem to have been a Christian, and probably the closest description is that he was a deist. Something that many Enlightenment figures, including most of the founding parents on the U.S., were. That is, he believed there was some first cause, but didn't go much beyond that.
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L
climber
Soy latte center of the Known Universe
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Formaldehyde????
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dirtbag
climber
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I meant to say the mice emerged from undisturbed Lennon.
Sheesh...it's been a long day at work!
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Could be. When you Proceed through the Lenin Mausoleum on Red Square, the 'Body' presented as grazhdanin Ulyanov looks very wax like. Very much like the Cavemen in the Dioramas in the Field Museum in Chicago. Though it will be 35 yrs this month since I paid my respects to Volodya, and maybe he looks more natural, now.
Pretty sure Darwin called himself a Christian.
[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:WWB4JaC38xxz7M:http://www.marx-brothers.org/whyaduck/cards/all-hail.jpg{{/img}}
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L
climber
Soy latte center of the Known Universe
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Kinda creepy...isn't it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Yup!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Floyd, you miss the point - humans being able to synthetically create life in any way, in any order, by any means tells you right off the bat that if primates can do it, it's a pretty simple affair, and a naturally occuring one at that. The odds that it wasn't replicated many times over Earth's history and isn't dirt common throughout the universe is beyond ridiculous and comparable to thinking the solar system revolves around a flat Earth. No god of any kind is required and I don't remember any religious texts conveying this 'power' on primates. Actually, in religious text of all stripes it is a power reserved to god - clearly as big an error as the flat Earth at the center of the universe.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Was it the Bible or later believers who claimed the Earth was flat or in the center of the universe? Might want to check out Isaiah's perspective (Isaiah 40:21-22).
I'm still wondering where all the matter in the universe came from...did it create itself during the big bang or was it always there? I hope some primate out there can explain that one for the rest of us.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Healyje, if primates are intelligent and can create life, and the universe contains billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars potentially capable of hosting a planet with conditions suitable for life, how do you know with certainty that there is no other beast out there who also knows how to create life--and maybe even transport it to another planet?
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Those who deny evolution love to point out the shortcomings of our current understanding without postulating a plausible alternative. What is your theory Floyd?
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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My theory is simple: I DON'T KNOW! Is there anything wrong with admitting our ignorance? I have no problem accepting biological evolution once life appeared on the planet, but I can't explain how life arrived here. Maybe by chance, maybe from another planet, maybe there really is an intelligent designer. Believing in any one of those sounds like faith to me. It's beyond the current realm of science.
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