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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 20, 2008 - 02:33am PT
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If I had a real van I'd be really thinking about a 1500 mile road trip... alas
but anyway, that is part of the reality... going places and climbing with SuperTopians in their element, or meeting them here and climbing in these elements, or just making time on a trip to meet for a beer&burger at a local pub, or some deadly chocolate desert with wine.
And just talk, sometimes even about STForum... but usually about things that just don't translate to written word.
For me, ST is real, 'cause you all are, even if you present here as avatars (अवतार) descending to this medium from some other, higher place.
It's great to meet you all when it happens.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
the secret life of T*R
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May 20, 2008 - 02:40am PT
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i think supertopo is def "real" but what is odd is the way that some people are so nasty. or they hide behind avatars whilst insulting people and it expect it not to matter if you meet them or dimiss any future slanderings as internet chatter. it's inconsistent and fake. i don't trust people who don't keep it real. life is short. pay attention.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho
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May 20, 2008 - 07:52am PT
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There are other continents? who knew...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2008 - 09:56am PT
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From LEB: " But PLEASE, happi, don't try to set up any more "obligations" or "responsibilities" for me in terms of this forum."
Lois.....I haven't asked you to take any obligations nor commitments to the people in this forum, and am a little surprised that you got that impression.
However....it does surprise me, quite a bit, to see your explanation as to the disconnect you feel between the (extensive, even by my standards) time you spend on this forum and the day to day, face to face, encounters you have.
I just don't get why a person would want that, to be honest. I'm thinking of some of the other online community stuff I have done over the years...
 I go on a photo critique site, and post photos as well as write critiques of other peoples ones, which helps me to develop a more critical eye on my own stuff.
It's an international forum, and I know I will never meet hardly any of the people. Interestingly, there have been one or two who have contacted me through the site because the recognized the locations I had submitted. So - even in a sea of people I will never meet, I still found quasi-physical connections.
I don't feel a "disconnect," even with people there who post photos of things that are completely out of my realm of interest. It isn't hard for me to imagine they are actually real humans, going about their day. Perhaps it is because that forum is fairly heavily moderated, beginning with requests that people use their real name as a login, but also through a fairly quick "step in" when people get caustic in the forums.
A photo site specifically geared toward Nikon cameras, which someone suggested to me when I got mine last winter. I don't interact much at all on that one, primarily because it has a lot of built in reminders that they want users to pay for a membership, which I simply do not want to do because it will add another automatic withdrawal from my bank account. I already have a few with utilities and such. They add up!
Anyway - these people also are quite helpful, and the forum is sort of Supertopian-esque in that everyone has that common denominator (Nikon cameras). While I don't feel any actually connection to anyone on the site, I think it is because I don't use it as often as I might. Still....I don't feel a "disconnect" either. When someone answer a post I made - it's not hard for me to feel their humanity.
Fitness-Singles....Well, even though I have never even come to making a physical connection with anyone on that site, it's actually got some of that 'disconnect" thing you mention. However - where I sense that is when I see people have viewed my profile, but theirs has no photo, and only the basic, required data filled out.
It seems, when that happens, that the person might be just on their to peek at pictures. There is one guy who views my profile at least once a week, and he does actually have a full profile. In addition, he looks a LOT like somebody I actually climb with on occassion. Yet he never has sent me a note....just looks. It makes me a little queazy when I see his name/photo on the list of people watching me.
On the other hand - I have actually had emails conversations with....a few....guys who are also on the climbing sites, and others who most likely are but have not provided any info that allows me to connect them with their other site usernames. Mostly it is people inviting me to give them a call if I get out their way, to climb, or people who at one time climbed at the Gunks and feel like reminiscing a bit.
So, that place does have some of the disconnect thing going on.
Other climbing sites - They're similar to S/Topo for the most part, regarding the connectivity. But my local crag is the Gunks, and if there was a 42nd Street of climbing (where if you stand there long enough....)it is the Uberfall at the Gunks. Jtree has a similar quality, and I am told it's the same with camp 4. Destination places for climbers.
I suppose that if a person lives in a more remote area that is not a destination crag, and never travels to climb, then maybe they would have a sense of disconnect. But when I can say that the number of people I have met in reality and also in one or another climbing forum is probably at least 500 by now.... Its just not possible for me to feel they are, for lack of a better word, akin to figments of my imagination.
EVEN the very few who are jerks to me, even the ones who hide behind a username they don't let on to out in the crags....Unless they are completely autonomous, they somehow get strung into the web that is the reality. There was, for a while, a couple guys on rc.com who were enjoying lambasting me, and they were using names that didn't connect them to the 3-d world. Alas, I have plenty of time on my hands...and I did some research. Even those people actually have given away enough that they aren't just ones and zeros any more. Even Juan, here on S/T, who throughly loves the troll persona, has provided enough about himself that I feel his sentience.
I don't know....My life is also filled with others, similar to yours. I have clients who are emotionally demanding and whom sometimes need me in ways that take my energy. Every single day, somebody on the street calls out my name and waves, and I often cannot even place them! Is it from the Gunks? From a local store, from the dog run, from a subway train I take regularly, from when I was facilitating a business workshop, from any number of places!
I guess the way you use ST is similar to the way I read books(currently reading "The Taking of Pelham One two Three"). I almost ALWAYS am in the middle of a book. And though the characters have qualities that elicit the same feelings as real people - I know they are not actually in existence. I don't feel any "obligation" to them(If I did....uh oh....cookoo!).
I just don't understand why a person would go to a place that does have real people, and use them in a similar way as, for example, a book of fiction. But....I know people do it all the time. That's sometimes why people use prostitutes, or go to bars, and there are probably plenty of other situations that just don't come to mind to me.
Still, it seems off to me, to use people in that function, and I am glad I don't do it. But maybe it is also because I am very fortunate that I got the "wake up" very much like Scrooge did in the story about the ghosts of xmas past, present, future. Sometimes I wish that all people experienced something similar, for it is actually an extraordinary gift.
But, thank you for explaining your experience. I will say, though - I am damned glad it's not mine!
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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May 20, 2008 - 10:21am PT
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ST is more "real" than many internet forums. Climbers are still a comparatively close-knit group; chances are you will run into folks here wether you know it or not.
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tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
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May 20, 2008 - 10:39am PT
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I think if you post up your name, meet someone, it becomes real.
If you prefer to remain anonymous for whatever reason, it really isn't.
The people who know me know that I don't buy things from REI to test them. But I learn a lot about people and ways of looking at life from saying that the stove I returned because it was broken was returned for no good reason, and then reading responses. I think it made a lot of people think about the discussion in different ways, and really, if everyone knew each other and had to play nice, would we get as much good discussion as we do? In that example it wouldn't have.
Life should be made up of Democrats and Republicans, real and unreal.
Then there are those who just fight.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2008 - 11:00am PT
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Are you saying that you started that REI flamefest intentionally? We need to come up with a name for cyber-arsonry.... trolling just ain't what that was. Or at least, like the Eskimos, we need to have lot of different names for troll(like they do with snow), for the various subtleties...
I remember someone(you, I guess) saying they used REI as a testing place with the Jetboil and the MSR similar stove, then returned and bought somewhere else. Or something like that. And whoosh - spontaneous combustion....
I don't get that at all, if it was made up. I DO think a person could get the same level of conversation going by simply asking "Suppose a person..." and then describing the buying, testing, returning scenario.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 20, 2008 - 11:11am PT
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Happie, I currently own, at least three nikon cameras. Please, feel free to share your images from the Nikon site.
If it weren't for thieves, I might be on a Leica site, right now.
But really, its the image that counts.
We build up the surreal here, and often get gratified when it turns out to be real.
"If you can imagine it, it exists"- David Byrne, a New Yorker.
Family Mojede, thas what I'm talkin' about, cheers! See you in Vedauwoo! hopefully in the batholth, too!!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2008 - 11:24am PT
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"Please, feel free to share your images from the Nikon site.
"
I am not sure what you meant. The Nikon site I referred to does have an image critique section, but....one has to be a paying member to use that.(http://www.nikonians.org);. I use that one to read about the workings of my camera, as it has a forum specifically for the D70s(and all the others).
The place I do the image critiques is a general photo site. Not going to list that url, but if anyone wants it, send me an email.
I will post some of the shots I took from JTree - maybe later on today. Have to resize and upload to Photobucket.... But, I really neeed to get more practice on full manual before I can make any claims. I am sort of still having a lot of frustrations understanding how to use the camera and often find myself using the auto settings because I want to get "something." But - the auto settings are SO specific, and I don't like some of the ways they are set!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 20, 2008 - 11:46am PT
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I just meant I thought you'd have some cool images to share. Take your time, we are all learners.
cheers
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Jim E
climber
Mountain Road
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May 20, 2008 - 11:48am PT
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Did this jump out at anyone else?
LEB wrote - "My life is very, very full with not a whole lot of time to spare."
No time?
http://www.supertopo.com/forumpostsearch.html?id=7819777
To answer the question of "is supertopo real?" I say 'yes' it is real, although, for the last year or so it seems to have become a parody of itself.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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May 20, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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leb wrote: "My life is very, very full with not a whole lot of time to spare."
ummm, not to put too fine a point on it, but with close to 11,000 posts on supertopo, many of them lengthy tomes that reek of careful composition, my guess is you have a great deal of time to spare. too much, perhaps.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 20, 2008 - 02:46pm PT
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I believe that Lois uses Dragon Naturally Speaking, and so dictates rather than writes. Allows much higher volume.
She does use a fair number of $5 words, and sometimes sounds like a non-lawyer trying to sound like what she/he thinks a lawyer should sound like.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 20, 2008 - 02:47pm PT
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Rox, click on the hypertext for LEB (or anyone else) in any post she has made.
Click on search for posts by LEB (or anyone else).
It lists posts and gives the total number.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 20, 2008 - 02:52pm PT
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one thing about my sis, she Is able to come out with stuff, a lot of stuff, in an unbelievably short period of time.
I've said before that she is a speed typist taking dictation from her internal dialog. I don't know any other explanation that makes sense.
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John Moosie
climber
Suckage California
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May 20, 2008 - 03:04pm PT
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It goes deeper. She is an addict. Supertopo is a drug to her which allows her to escape her "real" world. Part of how it achieves its affect is in how vigorous the conversation is. The more vigorous it is the more the escape feeling kicks in. This then encourages her to ramp it up by trolling people. It could be partially subconsious as I don't think Lois is like this in face to face situations.
I have been guilty of this too. I am trying to ween myself. I would prefer to treat others decently.
I apologize Lois for having been cruel to you, but please do not start that conversation again where you say you never attack first. Some day I hope you see how some of your language is offensive and can be construed as an attack. So please don't start, unless of course you need a fix. haha..
I am smiling Lois. You asked me why we tangle so much. Here is part of the reason. The need to escape our daily life.
But that is just part of it.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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May 20, 2008 - 03:06pm PT
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Don't know how many total Taco folks I've met IRL, but 8 of them
have posted on this thread so far.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 20, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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No way Elcap, word on the street is that you are an annonimous troll, impossible to find in real life. Come on, prove someone has met you in real life.
Thoughtful analysis, Moose.
Bottom of the ocean style edit;I know a lot of lawdogs and it is rare when one of them is as erudite(5$!) as that Leb construct.
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John Moosie
climber
Suckage California
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May 20, 2008 - 03:12pm PT
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Rox,
It can be, or you can use it to learn about your subconscious and then use that info to change. It can really help you learn to spot your ego. Healing your subconscious is the ticket to inner peace.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 20, 2008 - 03:16pm PT
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My subconcious is definetly in pain.
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