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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 29, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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I thought I had a neuroma...but upon further reading it seems more likely that I have hallux rigidus or a bone spur at the joint of my big toe...not too psyched on this...I have to start reading up on the treatment options...
maybe after Obama is elected I can afford to see a doctor about it ;)
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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UPDATE: I had the sucker removed today. It was the size of a martini olive. After exhausting the alcohol shots and hoping it would just go away, I elected the surgery and now it's out.
The proceedure was quite simple. I went to the doctors office and he numbed the area with novacane or some such drug. He then sliced the top of the foot open between the toe bones and worked his way down to the neuroma. Using his thumb he popped it to the top of the foot and snipped it out.
I read a backpacker magazine article about all of the things that could kill you in the wilderness while he worked away.
My insurance covered most of it and I'm trading a fly fishing painting for the balance.
The foot is elevated, the drugs are on the way, and I should be climbing again in about 6 weeks. Cheers, Jude
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HandCrack
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal.
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Hello Jude,
You probably don't remember me, but I met you briefly at Dwain's birthday get-together in Indian Cove in early Jan.
I just realized that the pain in my foot that has been bothering me for a couple of months is Morton's neuroma. I was wondering how your surgery turned out, and if you are able to climb pain-free.
I was afraid my climbing days might be over but apparently there are treatments available.
Thanks in advance for any info you can pass on.
Brandt Allen
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John Morton
climber
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And then there's "Morton's toe". Years ago a doctor told me I have this condition, which is simply a 2nd toe that's longer than the big toe. He had no idea whether people named Morton are likely to have Morton's toe - but in fact I am named Morton and I do have it. Just now I learned at http://www.philadelphia-reflections.com/topic/17.htm that there were 2 Dr. Mortons, one of whom named Morton's toe. The other one named Morton's neuroma. I know, I know, too much information.
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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Neuroma Woes:
I had a neuroma that troubled me for years, brought on by tight rock shoes. I tried cortesone injections, but there was no change. I went through 10 top-of-the-foot shots of saline solution to kill the nerve, very painful, and also didn't change anything. I suffered for many years, sometimes barely able to walk back to the car from the cliff. While climbing in Kenya, I was in tears by the end of the day, which finally convinced me the need for surgery. It was removed, and the foot was back to 100% 6 weeks later. I'm climbing better than ever without foot pain. Lesson learned -- NO MORE tight shoes!!!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 07:48pm PT
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Any follow up on the surgeries? Did it take? Looks like I'm heading down this path.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Oct 17, 2011 - 08:40pm PT
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Jerry:
I have had three neuromas. The first was actually at the base of my left leg - a weird spot. But it is on the same nerve that goes down between two 3 and 4. Years ago in STL, when it was unbearable (really couldn't even wear socks on it) I went to a doc. Got a steroid shot.
One of the singular most painful moments of my life. I'll never forget what the doctor said "It's exquisitely painful."
Weirdo.
Anyway, though the shot was absolutely heinous, it shrunk and desensitized the evil little beast. It's still there today, though much smaller and without pain.
The other two were the 'normal' neuromas - one in each foot. Painful for sure. I just had them whacked out during my bunion procedures. It's SO nice to have that pain gone.
Not sure that helps, but I don't miss mine and am happy to have the permanently out of my life. And I have cool scars to boot. :)
edit: Here is a photo that shows the healing surgical site. I had a pretty decent bunionectomy at the same time so a neuroma removal won't look quite as colorful.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
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Wow, that doesn't look fun, but I'm glad it worked.
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mark
climber
san diego, ca
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Oct 17, 2011 - 11:40pm PT
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I might have a story of my experience that is outdated, with new injections etc... but when I had Morton's, I "thought" I was over climbing and had to resort to a wheel chair cause I could not walk and to put my foot in a climbing or reg. shoe was torcher, esp. in the mornings... I had the Nueroma removed in 1994 and wished I had it in 1993, a yr. of agony..., i subsequently climbed well. I now have, on the same foot, from a motorcycle accident a jacked Halix joint (no cartlidge) and am having OrthoFisc injections as I speak, not FDA approved on any other joint then the Knee but it is working OK, 25% relief. If you have Morton's, the best thing for me was take it out, and yes, just as Baba said its from tight fitting shoes ie. climbing, I am no TV :)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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bump this one too
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Blast from the past. Still thrilled I got rid of the neuromas. Like someone said above, wish they would have been dealt with before - why I lived with that pain for so long is a mystery.
Absolutely no long term post surgery woes. The only thing I notice is that when someone is massaging my feet, I don't like them massaging that spot on the bottom of my feet. I think they hit the nerve stump and it makes a surprising zing.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
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Just now I learned at http://www.philadelphia-reflections.com/topic/17.htm that there were 2 Dr. Mortons, one of whom named Morton's toe. The other one named Morton's neuroma. I know, I know, too much information.
Nope, Toe Much Information
Just a suggestion when you're off the crags, the shoes that never aggravate my Neuroma, even if I dance all night (and I do) are crocs. I used to think they were ugly (and they are) but man, they're great for that foot thang
peace
Karl
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Good post, this is something that I've always thought would be relevant to climbers! In my experience as a clinician, the corticosteroid shots have more risk than benefit (e.g. they don't "fix the problem", but they definitely weaken the surrounding bone). Might be ok if you're absolutely desperately in pain. Surgery does work for this one, also kind of a last resort, as it obviously has many risks. Orthotics are the way to go (custom only) and if you can find a friendly chiropractor that can adjust the bones in your foot, try that one out! It may be possible to stave off the need for surgery by providing relief through the adjustments. Feel free to PM me regarding conservative management possibilities!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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in the short term, I'll seek orthotics for relief... my guess is that my foot is changing shape, spreading, which is harder to accommodate in my shoes which had had smaller toe boxes, at the same time as I am pronating more... this is causing all sorts of other issues, no doubt, including knees and hips which are all out of sorts anyway due to the back... but the symptoms I'm displaying seem to be classically Morton's Neuroma...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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Good to work with it while it's first showing symptoms Ed. If find once it's aggravated, it stays worse but if you let it calm down for a bit, it will be OK until you mess with it and it's inflamed
peace
karl
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Shoes which are too tight can be implicated.
For years I slaved under a rule of thumb, so to speak, to purchase my kletterschue about 2 Euro sizes smaller than my street shoes - then, my EBs were a 42; street wear about 10.5. Generally OK, but a long day left me wishing I could walk on my hands. But not to the point reached by one partner, who needed to take his shoes off after each pitch - the smell alone would put anyone off his feed.
Eventually I had to face the fact that as we age, our feet broaden. Unless, per "Born to Run," we run down the wily antelope barefoot, and so strengthen the foot. When the foot hurts, your whole body can follow suit. Seems like the foot will also flatten out and broaden at the end of a full day on them, too.
So...in searching for some good pair (which didn't give rise to 'hammer toe,' where the smallest 2 or 3 little piggies would be forced by the shoe's toebox into a clenched, fist like, conformation)...I found myself a pair of Sportiva men's size 12's! And they are as comfortable as a pair of bedroom slippers. I even get to wear socks, of various thicknesses, to feel snug.
Turns out, as I was to learn from my ski boot fitting, that it just boils down to: No foot movement within the Shoe!
And these slippers seem to bull's eye edge as good as ever. Replacing Sportiva's sole with Steath "Onyx" rubber was indicated on my first trial outing - took a Slip and Fall on a stretch of friction on Freewheeling, under the delusion that my favorite shoe maker would, by now, have incorporated rubber equal to the design and construction of the shoe proper.
Not only is the performance acceptable, within the range of other unrelated limitations, the pitches flow by much more pleasantly when foot pain free. Leading to an enhanced performance overall, and a more pleasant one to Boot!
Custom orthotics are also terrific: "Footloose," in Mammoth is a great provider/mf'r. Improved trail running, approach hikes, and X skiing were the result of a marriage of carefully selected last/rand profiles, and vacuformed orthotics.
After reading this thread, I'm very grateful that I've never met either of the Dr. Mortons. I've also avoided shin splints, compressive tib/fib fractures, sprains. A chiropodist partner of mine called a minor pronation while we went out for a run together, and this led to the first orthodics to nip some developing runner's knee in the bud, before it morphed into skier's knee.
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HuecoRat
Trad climber
NJ
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I had a neuroma in my right foot for many years. Super painful when edging, and when walking in mountain boots (although climbing in mountainboots was pain free). Tried injections to no avail. Finally had surgery to remove it. It was a full inch in diameter. The surgeons were so impressed they photographed it and wrote it up for a journal. I have been so happy to be without the pain!! Every now and then I will get a twinge, but it's no big deal.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol
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There are moments for tight shoes in climbing. Those moments aren't while training, at the gym, in most cracks, or on moderate terrain. 90% of your climbing can and should be done in comfortable shoes. When you need to do the hard send, pull out the tight pair.
If I had any advice for people who want to climb for a long time, it is to fit your shoes as loose as you can climb in, instead of as tight as you can sqeeze in.
Over six weeks In 2010 I trashed my feet crack climbing in a trusty old pair of Kaukulators that came out of retirement when my other shoes blew out. I did Astroman and went up the Hulk three times. My feet had apparently changed shape since I last used the shoes, and kept going numb. By the end I could hardly walk let alone smear on a hold. Come to find out, foot jams aren't good for your feet! Over the past two years I've been sticking to steeper routes and avoiding routes that require foot jams, and the feet are finally feeling better.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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I've had a nueroma of some type in one foot for over 15 years. Hot weather causes more swelling and a quicker onset of the burn. Spent too many hours trying to fix it and now live with it. Those down-turned toes in most models of climbing shoes are impossible for me to wear. Comfy = good.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
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Apr 19, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
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Looking for any updates of folks that have had to deal with this, Climbing doesn't usually bother it, but hiking. OH BOY. At about mile 5 it kicks in, by mile 10 it's brutal. Today I had to take my boot off twice to rub it. I made 15 miles but I don't think I could have gone an inch further. Usually it relieves as soon as I'm off it but tonight I'm still having tingling hours after. I've heard about surgery and also the "shots". And as Crimpie said, I did hear they are "excruciating". ... Oh great. I did have a cortisone shot in the elbow once that I started to pass out from and I dread anything like that again.
Thanks!
Susan
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