Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 12:53pm PT
|
IF your having trouble placing gear in that crack just drive home a few 1" angles. And for Gods sake stay off Double Cross if the bolts have been chopped. Its way harder than it looks.
Juan
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
Denver, CO
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 12:54pm PT
|
Hardman
Looks like the belayer in your pic is anchored (loosely)
off a single bolt. Mmmmmm, good. Even if it's a 3/8"
placed by the ASCA, I wouldn't trust my life to a single
bolt if I could clip into more, as it looks like are there. . .
Plus, with that nice lookin' crack behind him, he hopefully
has a bomber couple of cams in it. . .
Like you said, the death belay.
|
|
coldrainsnow
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 12:55pm PT
|
I was wearing one of the old style Petzl Elios helmets... I was a longtime bicycle racer before climbing and have always thought that bike helmets would do a lot more for a head impact as well. That being said, I'm sure my helmet did something - I would have been a lot worse off if I wasn't wearing anything at all.
I will definitely be looking into the new-school climbing helmets that are more like biking helmets from here on out. And nope, not related to James. :)
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 01:01pm PT
|
Coldrainsnow:
So happy to hear you're doing well. Hope your wife is doing well too. Being there when something like this happens can be pretty dang awful. Hugs to her!
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 01:02pm PT
|
Whoa! Crimpergirl in da house!
Coldrainsnow - would you mind telling us the details of the accident?
Hopefully any info you could share might be helpful in preventing similar accidents.
You might even want to submit something to ANAM (or Rock and Ice ANAM section).
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2008 - 01:11pm PT
|
Toe Jam is the " unpleasant" crack to the left of Bearded Cabbage. I first climbed it in the sixties with pins. I've always had some difficulty protecting it with modern pro-- upper crack. It's one of those easy yet devilish routes that can get you hammered. On two occasions, I've watched newbies as the leader wandered over to the right to belay(the rap bolts) instead of using the crack under the overhang straight back. That, of course, can get the second killed.
The pic showed up while I was writing this. If you haven't climbed it and may do so, the picture demonstrates the error.
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 02:04pm PT
|
Helmets are a great idea. Some friends were next to a guy who pitched off a slabby crack at Jtree, flipped upside down and cracked his head. He was Ok because of his helmet, probably would have had a skull fracture without one.
I make my living with my brains hence always wear one.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 02:11pm PT
|
Hi Hardman and others! Internet is repaired (only took ATT 20 days to get it fixed), I'm back in town near the computer, so here I am poking around on the Taco. :)
|
|
Anastasia
Trad climber
California
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 02:21pm PT
|
Nice to hear that you are doing alright after such an accident. I wish you a quick recovery!
AF
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
|
No need for a bolt,
Just sit in the big hidden hole.
If you really feel the need for an anchor, lasso the huge knob imediately above the hole.
Visible in the photo directly above and slightly right of the second.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
|
That's horrible!!! You had dinner at Crossroads? Decking is a minor hazard compared to that.
Glad you're OK, and yeah, helmets save lives. Hope you're climbing again soon.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 02:45pm PT
|
Glad you're relatively ok, wishing you a speedy recovery. That thing is like a mirror in spots.
To you drama queens with the ''death belay" stuff: Yeah, it's a bad idea to belay over at the rap anchor, and there's a good anchor available directly above the route. But "death belay"? Please. It's a clean slab below, worst case a tumbling skin grating 15' penji. And maybe think twice before you run around yelling stuff like "death belay" at people you don't know. Do you run around yelling "death fall!" to random soloists?
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
|
hey there coldrainsnow... say, i just jumped in here and heard this.. i sure will be praying for you and the long-range outcome of your injury... yes, take time off and ENJOY some time with your wife, as you are grounded for a bit...
say, santa cruz is special to me, my brother howard, lives near there in the foothills...
take care as you continually recover... i may not know ya', but climbers are very special to me, as my brother was one for many years 'til now--as he has to work a lot now (but happily using these skills)....
i am very very glad you are STILL HERE to love your family and home... and still love the greatoutdoors....
once again, god bless your future..
|
|
Standing Strong
Trad climber
one summer dream
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 03:13pm PT
|
sorry to hear of your accident coldrainsnow. best wishes for healing fast and well.
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2008 - 03:39pm PT
|
I've believed for many years that there were a few routes very popular with novices that should be treated as a unique set and given unique protection. Now, I realize that this won't happen due to the inflexible mindset of some traditionalists who would chop any bolts placed. We have so many people climbing now with such a varied level of experience that we should expand our thinking a bit. When I started, most newbies were guided into the sport by experienced climbers. Now, we have a situation where the inexperienced are often being led by the not-so-quite inexperienced which results in serious boo boos. Oh well, I know this idea is dead on arrival.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 05:32pm PT
|
"We have so many people climbing now with such a varied level of experience that we should expand our thinking a bit"
^^^
least common denominator argument
hey woody, i assume that w/ so many immigrants these days, quite naturally, you also advocate for multiple official languages?
no?
why not "expand our thinking a bit"?
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 06:30pm PT
|
Elcapinyoazz wrote:
But "death belay"? Please. It's a clean slab below, worst case a tumbling skin grating 15' penji. And maybe think twice before you run around yelling stuff like "death belay" at people you don't know. Do you run around yelling "death fall!" to random soloists?
Actually, the worst-case scenario would be the single-bolt "anchor" failing,
sending the belayer on a head-first tumble - and a world of hurt. I wouldn't
be at all surprised if he was simply clipped in with a non-locking biner.
Yelling "death belay" would certainly make them think about what they were doing.
We had some teenagers down at Mickey's who had an even worse setup than these
guys. The climber was on Rust Never Sleeps, and the belayer was standing 50 feet
to the right and 20 feet higher at the base of The Beach Arete, clipped in to a single
rusty 3/8th inch bolt. We were flabbergasted. My partner very nicely informed them
of the danger. The response? "Ah, we're all right, man." Well, sometimes a little "tough
love" is appropriate, because many times you get an arrogant, ego-driven response.
My partner told the kids that he had been on YOSAR, and in that brief time he had
seen dead bodies of people doing far less stupid stuff. The feral teenagers quickly
got the message...
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 07:30pm PT
|
Its a crime against nature to stand in the way of Natural Selection.
Juan
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 07:33pm PT
|
Holy frig! Glad you're OK.
Climbing really is dangerous, eh? Sheesh.
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
Jan 23, 2008 - 07:42pm PT
|
Toe Jam doesn't need bolts.
IF by the traverse you guys mean the left diagonal flakey crack where the birds fly out, that part eats gear. The finish crack took plenty of gear too. Maybe the climb seems so easy that people just don't really feel the need to place much gear.
I can't understand why anyone would belay from those rap anchors! The guy in the pic has cams that would probably have fit well in the horizontal in the "belay trench".
BTW, that little slab between the small split and the death belayer is fun, but gritty. There is a crack on top you can use for an anchor to belay someone up with, if you dig out the crud.
I still hate Jtree though.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!