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rhyang
Ice climber
SJC
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Dec 14, 2007 - 10:54am PT
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Great to hear you are doing so well !!
btw I read that you were in a halo. Wore mine for 3 months and made a keychain out of one of the pins -
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Dec 14, 2007 - 11:05am PT
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Thanks for the testimonial! I remember the first time I discovered how slick a bachmanns can be. Fortunately for me at the time, I was just hanging below a roof on tiny double ropes, not desperately clinging to the ends of them!
Very glad to hear you're doing so well. Kudos to you for having the courage to speak up. And a BIG thank you to everyone involved in helping you out, rescuers, friends, family, Doug. I'm sure many others have played a part. So far as I'm concerned, if they're helping you, they're helping us all, as there but for the grace of circumstance go I.
Hoping you a full and speedy recovery.
Cheers!
GO
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 14, 2007 - 11:06am PT
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Good God, you're lucky to be alive. Count your blessings, heal up, and learn from your mistake. Merry Christmas!!!
Tie knots in the end of the rope, please. It doesn't take that much time.
Be well, Meg.
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Dec 14, 2007 - 11:18am PT
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Wow, that was a gripping story. Glad to hear you are recovering.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Dec 14, 2007 - 11:24am PT
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Meg,
I'm so glad you are here and on the road to recovery.
Now, when your grandkid tells you about the ten foot whipper he took on that 10b sport route, you can sit him down and educate him on the true meaning of "epic".
:)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 14, 2007 - 11:58am PT
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That was a gripping read indeed, the slow-motion things going wrong while you knew they weren't quite right, but each decision set up the next. Thanks for sharing it so frankly with all us strangers, most of whom can probably recall their own share of sketchy rappels and bad decisions.
I used to back up many of my raps with a prussik self-belay, but have lost that habit over the years. Now both prussiks and end knots are a situation-specific thing. Can't count the number of times I've wrapped the rope a few times around one leg, though, as a no-tech solution to free my hands and buy time.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Dec 14, 2007 - 12:28pm PT
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Meg,
First of all, your attitude is friggin awesome! People who can look at things like you are seem to have the happiest lives.
And thanks for sharing your story and the lessons learned. You had my hands sweating just reading it.
It seems this scenario is very typical of accidents. Unexpected things come up. Then a series of not well thought out decisions (made in the heat of the moment under duress) combine to a bad outcome.
I'm glad that for all things considered, things are going as well as they are. Get well soon!
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L
climber
The Late Great Planet Earth
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:10pm PT
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Wow Meg--thanks for that update! Glad to hear you're mending so well and so quickly.
Thanks also for reminding us about "that little voice". Its importance to each of us adventurers in the vertical world can never be stressed enough.
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:27pm PT
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Glad you're okay. Back in my early yosemite forays I had issue w/ the place where I believe you fell.
This is an exert from my trip report (06-2001)
8:30pm - Sun goes down and we had 2 more pitches to rap. Monty and J were a bit slower rappellers - so we were dragging and I kept harping on going way faster - but it was just no use... we were benighted. It was dark and Paul (the most experienced guy) did rap 9?? (off a big tree near the river) but stopped too early at some old rusty 1/4 inch bolts and backed them up.
The other guys rapped (really slow in the dark) and then I rapped last, arriving and seeing the shitty old bolts I realized (as had paul) that he should have kept going and found better bolts lower.
I kept rapping on the same line, looking for the good bolts and then saw some anchors further down on the left wall(yeah!). What I found were 2 of the scaries looking button-heads with nightmare slings on them (no!). No way was I hanging off that crap!
So I went down a more and didn't see a damn thing! It was really dark and I couldn't see the ends of the ropes and no bolts in sight (even with the headlamp). Knowing that I'd have to prussic back up all the distance I rapped if I didn't find any bolts had me worried about going down when I didn't see anything.
I finally decided that I'd prussic back up the bad belay where the other were and we'd have to re-group and swing further right to find anchors. With a backpack full of crap, I climbed the ropes (prussics) back up to the belay.
Did I mention that the ropes were wet? Horrible, horrible, horrible time getting back up the rope. Tying backup knows every 25 feet was impossible. The wet ropes would pull tight on the knot and become rock hard - making it really tough to untie.
I was completely spent by the time I got back up. Paul got on rappel and swung way to the right and finally found some shiny new bolts at the top of a bolted route - BUT the ropes were stuck at the bottom. He clipped the ropes to the new anchors, rapped and unstuck the ropes (they were in the water too) and prussic'ed back up to the anchors.
At this point it's 10pm. We all rapped to where paul was, me going last and breaking down his anchor. Upon arrival at what we thought to be the last rappel - we were all weary. But the night wasn't over.
The ropes got stuck again and we couldn't pull them through. All our energy was blown pulling and they were just stuck, but we still had both ends.
11:00pm - Paul decides that because we could pull the ropes very slowly in one direction, he could tie in and toprope up to a spot where he could fix the problem. I would yard with all I had to get the ropes to move in the one direction, then they'de pull up the slack through an ATC. Finally Paul was able to get up enough to flip the rope over and then lowered slowly back to us.
We pulled and pulled - finally the ropes came down.
11:30pm - Rap 10 put Paul on the ground. The others rapped and finally I followed, I'd been going last to double check the beginners before every rappel.
12:00am - Coil the soaking wet ropes - began scramble.
12:30am - Open cold beers from Paul's truck.
 I can still remember the exhaustion and brain numbing that comes w/ hanging on those raps - trying to find anchors and dealing w/ the unknown. I sure hope your rehab goes great and you can get back to doing the things you love in life.
Jason
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:34pm PT
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Thanks for sharing your story, Meg. Definitely scary to see it happen from your perspective, but very helpful because it gives us events we can relate to. It's so nice of Doug to give you and Matt a place to stay while you heal up.
I agree with Roger that when rapping and you are unsure if the rope reaches (in this case because of the tangled ropes), the leg wrap is the first thing I would go to. Heck, I even do it when untangling the ropes. But once the ropes are at full length and you are still unsure if they reach (as you get closer to the lower anchor and rope stretch is having some effect), then it's time to use the leg wrap before you get too close to the ends (and put the knots in at that time).
One of my friends had a similar rappelling accident in the summer, where the ropes also did not reach but looked like they might. She managed to get a knot into one of the ends. The other end slipped through her ATC, but fortunately, the knot was on the "right" strand to hold her. She considered trying to extend down from the ends of the rope using some long slings, but realized things were getting out of hand and she didn't want to increase the risk any further. She didn't have prusiks and couldn't communicate with her partner, so she was stranded [Edit: see Kate's post - even without prusiks, she could have ascended the rope with slings, but she wasn't sure at the time it would work - she took a self-rescue class shortly after and is up to speed now]. Fortunately she was able to call down to the valley floor and YOSAR was contacted; they were able to climb up and reach her. This accident is briefly mentioned on the friends of YOSAR rescues page on 6/17/07:
http://www.friendsofyosar.org/rescues/rescues1.html
Meg's accident was previously described at:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=494023
and the rescue at:
http://www.friendsofyosar.org/rescues/missions/11-20-07_Arches.html
P.S. survival asked:
> Bhilden, how does one "lower" ones partner off the end of a rope? Doesn't "lowering" imply being tied to the partner above?
I think what Bhilden meant was lowering someone after they have led a climb. If the anchor is higher than expected (more than half the rope length), then if the belayer is not watching for the far end of the rope, it can go through their belay device and the leader then falls to the ground.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Dec 14, 2007 - 03:57pm PT
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Why did you not tie a backup knot at the end of the ropes. This has saved me more than once.
Juan
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crøtch
climber
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:09pm PT
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Thanks for sharing that story and best wishes for a speedy recovery.
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scuffy b
climber
Stump with a backrest
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:14pm PT
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Best wishes with your healing, Meg, and thanks for the frank
and informative report.
If you are up for some climbing entertainment Monday evening,
come on over to the Soquel Offwidth with Doug. He knows the way.
How is his reading voice, by the way?
steve
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survival
Big Wall climber
arlington, va
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:17pm PT
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Clint,
Thanks for the clarification. I totally understand that possibility, but I didn't think that was what he was talking about.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Dec 14, 2007 - 04:30pm PT
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For rapping I usually do not put knots in the ends of my ropes (unless it's a free hanging rap), and almost always use an autoblock on a leg loop. I keep my eyes on the rope whenever I'm moving down and make sure there's plenty of rope below me. If I did see I was running out of rope the autoblock stops the rap and I can do what I need to do hands free. Sorry to put rap safety talk into this thread but I don't think it's wrong to not have knots, and I think an autoblock can help prevent accidents.
It's not very efficient but you can also jug back up your lines with an autoblock on your leg loop (along with another friction knot to make upwards process and then working the ropes through the rap device and autoblock to hold you on the rope).
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Dec 14, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
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Thank you, Meg, for sharing this story. Its a really un-selfish thing to do. Its also good to hear that your recovery is going well.
Regarding Prussiks - Two people in this thread have mentioned how someone "Didn't have Prusiks" and implied that the rope could not be ascended because of this. (Both the OP and in a later thread, someone referring to a friend mention something like this.)
Next, both posters go on to mention trying to extend the ropes with the slings that they have with them.
It seems to me that if you have two slings, or even one sling and a belay device or just a locker, you can prussik a rope. Is there something I'm missing here?
Of course, I can understand making the decision not to prusik...but folks seem to be implying that it couldn't be done.
-Kate.
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Dec 14, 2007 - 05:22pm PT
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I use an autoblock on a leg loop, like the Fet. Unless its a super easy rap where I know where Im going, and the Sun's out. I usually dont ties knots in the ends of the rope.
I always carry at least one short prussic cord. Sometimes I have two.
A few times with my son I have set gear he could not clean. Rather than taking it out of his allowance, I tie him in, rap down and clean the gear, then switch to a prussic and a reverso and jug back up.
I havent tried it, but somewhere I heard that a dyneema sling is hard to use as a prussic. Maybe it just takes more wraps around the rope?
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meg AK
Trad climber
Kennicott
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2007 - 05:51pm PT
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To "survival" from eagle river. Yes, we live right in kennicott, actually. One of the few private properties in the mill site. Very lucky indeed. Very quiet and secluded as well. It is a magic place.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dec 14, 2007 - 06:10pm PT
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Flat sling material does not make a good prussik knot, you are supposed to use cord. BTW, I'm pretty sure those new mammut dyneema slings would be one of the worst choices for friction knots, as the dyneema is very slick. I have made all sorts of friction knots in the wider BD dyneema/nylon slings, and they work well, although a wider all nylon sling would still probably be better. A friction knot that won't fric is not a good thing.
Failing to have two or three prussik CORDS. OOPS. Those things just live on my harness, along with an alpine clutch (two oval biners and a 2 foot sling). With three prussik cords and an alpine clutch you can do almost anything, and do it fast, with out much effort.
Anyway, you can use other knots that are better for flat stuff.
I believe the op mentioned that she tried a bachman, and also one other that she had trouble with, before settling on the bachman.
The OP also makes note of how fatigue had a big effect on her ability to do what she needed to do. These rappel accidents often come at the end of the day of course. When you're tired, it's getting dark, and you want to go down now.
Why people seem to think knots in the ends on multi pitch raps are situational I don't know. It's always better to deal with a stuck knot than to try to deal with falling off the ends after you've don it. famous line from fasulo's book: Nobody dies from an unplanned night on the mountain, but lots die from rapping off the ends.
Failing to use a rappel backup. Bad idea. There's nothing more to say cause you are either preaching to the choir on this or wasting your time. But, a decent rappel backup will save your butt.
Why people get complacent, and that's part of what happened here, the OP stated that usually she tied knots in the ends)and how to avoid that is a huge issue for anyone who has climbed long enough to reach the complacency point.
My own stupid climbing accident involved a lot of bad luck, but complacency is what did me in.
Anyway, if you study self and leader rescue, or even take a course in it, You're probably going to at least have the things you need with you ALL THE TIME, and your mind will already be on the right track if you get in a tight. Even better, after some self and leader rescue training, you are a lot better at avoiding the bad situations in the first place.
This post is in no way a mean spirited criticism of the OP, but it is an attempt to save some butts in the future, and clear up a few ideas.
off soap box
Oh yeah, 4 wrap prussiks are superior to three wrap prussiks.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Dec 14, 2007 - 06:51pm PT
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Survival,
Clint was correct. I was referring to the, unfortunately, very common occcurance where a climber is being lowered after completing a lead (most times this is sport climbing) and the rope runs right through the belayer's device and the leader decks. Clearly, that is not what happened in Meg's case.
Bruce
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