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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Thanks for the post and pics
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Tom: " Hey, Nefarious Randy: what about some photos of the RAiders that PTPP has stored at your place?"
I actually don't have them, or most any of Pete's stuff at my house now, short of a few things I use throughout the year. Seems he has a friend living closer to the big stone than I who will store his stuff. Works for me cause I cleared out my storage unit (saved myself $50 a month!)and actually park one of my cars in the garage now.
Chromoly (sp?) rings are the way I went. The Ti stuff sucked anyway. It practically bent under body weight. The slightest bounce and they would bend.
Scary hooks on that homemade jobber! Yikes!
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fenderfour
climber
Seattle, Wa
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The Ti rings do suck. They bend and scar as you use them. THe rough edges fray the webbing on the trees. I have a set of welded steel rings I will be using to create new aid trees.
Those are Ti hooks from the Uralsport Russian Aiders. They are not home made.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2007 - 12:12am PT
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Damn, those are suh-weet looking Russkies, dude! I really like the wide band around the knee, and especially the wide footbed. Beauty, eh?
The hook looks pretty big, though. Can you put a ruler next to it for scale? How do you find that hook works - OK or what? Have you tried it with Fish's Aid Trees?
I'll take some pix of my Trango hooks with a ruler for scale, so you guys can get a good look at it.
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fenderfour
climber
Seattle, Wa
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The hooks are pretty big. Someone requested photos of the buckles, so I will post pics of the buckles and hooks soon.
I only have Russ' aid trees. These hooks work well, but I'm finding that the hooks scar the rings pretty easily. The rings are shredding the nylon on the trees. It leads me to believe that the hooks are made with a harder Ti alloy than the rings.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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My first aid trees were made using home depot welded rings. They are MUCH heaveier. However they also do not flap around in the wind nearly as much (though the Fish are still far better than normal aiders). So far my Fish trees are not chafing much, maybe my rings have fewer burrs? My top two sets of rings are ovaled from high leverage on overhung stuff, but none from testing (I daisy bounce). I'll post up some pics of my abominations tonight. Home Despot hooks suck.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2007 - 04:01pm PT
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New photos uploaded, and text improved and clarified.
Thanks to John Raaf = raffie for the photos, eh?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 10, 2007 - 12:18am PT
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Ok, I got inspired by Dingus' question as to how much could be done with BD hooks. They are NOT optimal, especially their shape and excess size, but they should be a modest improvement over my Home Despot hooks. So I built up revision 4 of my russian aiders. I've included pics of my Kung Fu aider inspired rev. 3's (these have gone up a couple walls, and several partial walls...). Rev 1 were VERY bad, rev 2 had sucky padding, but were what got me up my first wall.
Rev 4 moves to a 1" stirrup instead of a 2", as I found it was too bulky under the foot, and got in the way of free moves. Rev 4 uses the CMI double pass buckles only because I ran out of the cinch ones I used on rev 3.
I meant to make the right one red, and the left blue, but wasn't paying attention. So I left them backwards becuase it was easier than ripping the seams.
I figure if the ones off ebay went for >300, and Russ's trees are only $50, sooooo I could charge $250 for these? Hmmm....
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2007 - 01:13am PT
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Good job improvising Moof
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Dec 10, 2007 - 09:02am PT
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Wow, impressive job there!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2007 - 11:18am PT
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Wow, superb job by Moof! Isn't it amazing the sorts of things a man can come up with when he's motivated by desperation? Trapped in his cubicle with nothing to think about except getting on the Big Stone? I like how the design has evolved. How wide is the strap under the foot? I like the extra padding for sure.
Man, when I was married to the ex - who was completely unsympathetic to my caving, climbing and fishing adventures - I used to have my "cave" down in the basement where I put up all my topo maps. I had the whole of Quetico Provincial Park - a fishing and paddling paradise just north of Minnesota's Boundary Waters - pinned up across one big wall. And there I would go to hide from her, and dream of my next adventure, which might be whenever she would "let" me go, which of course was never long enough. Accordingly I planned my trip to the nearest hour, driving my partners crazy. Then I would spend the next year looking at my slides again and again.
Now I'm self-unemployed with a girliefriend who "gets it", so I rarely spend much time planning these things - I just go. Funny how that happens, eh?
Any, just because I can fit in a quick post right underneath his excellent photos, here's one shot of the Trango hook that gives you an idea how big it is. Those Cliffhanger hooks look a bit big - maybe you could bend them inwards, and cut or file them off?
Note the annoying way that I have had to thread the free end of the calf strap around itself to prevent it from slipping - this is because the crappy Trango buckles are no good.
FYI, I am in the process of splicing in six more close-up photos of my actual Russian Aider cuffs, and once they're in, my post will be more or less complete.
P.S. Having fallen on several duct-taped hooks for pro, I can tell you with certainty that they will stop falls. Fish and Captain Hooks are awesome, but even Talons have worked for me. Nor have I even once blown out a hook placement by falling on it. I once fell 25' onto a duct-taped Cliffhanger on Native Son - with no Screamer on it - and it held my fall, which was a good thing considering what might have happened if it hadn't held.
I used duct-taped hooks for pro all the time, especially when I am scared, or when I don't have much rope out and the fall factors are high. Now the bolt you see is an ancient piece of mank, that believe it or not is probably not even as strong as the hook! I know this with certainty, too, because I have pulled so many old bolts out and replaced them.
We didn't replace this bolt, or many others on the Ranch, because through an oversight of mine, Kate and I ended up on the wall with only two 3/8" bolts for replacing old gear, and accordingly a lot of our belay anchors were pretty marginal. So I was usually scared when climbing above our stations, and this was probably one of those times!
What the gentleman below writes sounds good in theory, however it doesn't line up with my experience.
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Wrathchild
Big Wall climber
Satan's testicles
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Dec 10, 2007 - 01:52pm PT
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Will you still think they are great when you rip out your femoral artery in a fall?
Duct taped hook for pro, and the very next piece is a bolt? What's the point?
If you fall on a duct taped hook, you'll likely rip the placement and have to put in a rivet. The likelihood it will hold you is infinitesimal. I really wish you would stop doing that and telling people to do it.
But that pretty much covers everything you do.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 10, 2007 - 01:59pm PT
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Pete,
Numerous buckles out there do much better. You should send yours to Fish for a refit, I'm sure if you supplied the hardware and careful sketches he'd have little trouble with the sewing and bartacking. Might only cost you 50 beers american (That's 53 beers canadian these days).
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:43pm PT
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Wrathchild,
Possible disembowlment by hook is supposed to be one of the many "joys" of aid climbing. In this case though the hook is way down by your knee. About the best you could do to yourself in a fall is kneecap yourself. Even then you are just about as likely to impale yourself with your nut tool, have the rope wrap around your head and decapitate yourself, or even wise up and take up sport climbing (parish the thought).
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Knuckles
Trad climber
Everett, Wa
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Dec 10, 2007 - 02:50pm PT
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In checing out the various postings regarding RAiders it appears the difficulty is mostly the hook and the knee attachment. Also, some have mentioned difficulty with the knee attachment interfering with a knee pad. Hypothetically, what if the knee pad and the knee attachment were integrated into one unit? Could something like the BD telekinesis knee pads be adapted with beefier load bearing webbing, padding and a hook? I've had better luck with softer knee pads as they don't tend to skate around but maybe the BD knee pad with some sticky rubber affixed to the front? Thoughts?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:09pm PT
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Knuckles,
There have been at least one or two pairs I've seen pictures of over the last few years doing exactly what you're mentioning. It looks to be a very viable idea. I personally just use the thin volleyball kneepads and suffer. The hard plastic ones just are too bulky for me. With the thin volleyball ones it's all good. The russian aiders keep the stupid pads from migrating down due to the conical nature of my fat thighs and atrophied calves.
Here is a link to pictures on rc.com (not really the one I had in mind...): http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Big_Wall/russian_aider_cuffs_version_2.0_29423.html
EDIT:
Found the ones I was looking for:
[img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/5/330555-largest_a4.jpg[/image]
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/5/330555-largest_a5.jpg{{/img}}
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2007 - 03:17pm PT
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Ryan,
It's true that if your kneepad is bulky, it's sometimes hard to see the hooks. Lately I've been using the "skateboard" type kneepads with the hard plastic turtle shell [I like turtles] as opposed to the "wrestling" or "volleyball" style soft kneepads, simply because the former usually come with Velcro attachment straps, while the latter usually require you to slide the soft kneepads up your leg. Accordingly, I much prefer the convenience of being able to add the kneepads after I've forgotten to put them on, which I usually do.
So I prefer the convenience of the Velco straps. If the Great Designers here want to include an integrated soft kneepad, that wouldn't bother me a bit. I think the pads should have Velcro adjustment straps, so you can wear them with thick pants in cold weather, or in shorts [so you can puncture your femoral artery] in warm weather. A traditional volleyball-style pad doesn't give you any adjustability.
Clearly Moof is a man well on his journey from Young Bull to Old Bull, as evidenced by not only his great design of Russkies, but also his manly body.
Here is the photo hotlinked from above:
These are Evan Freeman's design, and I met him on the summit of El Cap once after we both summitted. He showed me his home-made Russkies, and I bought 'em on the spot!
If someone knows how to reach Evan, we could sure use him on this post. His design was quite comfortable indeed, and the hook was OK so far as I was concerned. However the things failed on me after a few walls, because the area directly beneath the hook abraded, and the hook basically fell out the front through the hole. Too bad, as I liked the things.
Hey, and like thanks to everyone for really helping make this the ULTIMATE Russian Aider Post, eh?! Cheers!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 10, 2007 - 03:43pm PT
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The hooks in Evan's design (above) are one of the hooks (of two) that I was deciding on when I was working with the aiders. (I never saw Evan's design until now) It's a great hook. Small, light, cheap, easy to come by. Best of all, it's SUPER strong. More than strong enough to do the job.
The best part of testing was testing the rings on the trees! Bounce testing became drop testing. More for the hell of it than anything. Fun day. hahaha
I found it ironic that as I was cleaning the other night, I came across some of the rings, hooks, etc. I'd purchased before common sense got the better of me on the project.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 10, 2007 - 04:04pm PT
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Nefarius,
Mine dropping me a bone here? Where do I get some? Can't see enough to do much good with...
P.S. I like making this sort of crap. It's a welcome change from my engineering job where lately I don't get to build a damn thing... So if anyone wants a pair of BD hook russian aiders, I'd probably be willing to do them for about ~$70/pair (~$40 in materials, #30 for labor). It would be less if I don't have to pay $12/hook.
EDIT:
Found them I think:
http://www.berkeleypoint.com/products/hardware/doublejwebhook.html
$6/each isn't bad at all. I'll have to get a handful and take a shot at rev. 5... Where's my xmas bonus this year?
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Wrathchild
Big Wall climber
Satan's testicles
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Dec 10, 2007 - 08:42pm PT
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Hey Zabrok,
Do you understand the concept of a thread?
You just edited a previous post to "pre"reply.
Nice shot at biasing before the fact.
Maybe I should post to every thread right away, so I can go back and edit it to slam anything anybody might EVER say.
That alone is enough for me to say something about what a slimy bastard you are.
You are a phucking clown, and everybody knows it.
You're a blight on the landscape and an affront to the sport.
I've been up the Big Stone well over a dozen times, put up FA's in remote ranges in 6 countries, and only taken 2 aid falls EVER. You whip all the time, and drop your haulbag.
Stop giving advice. I don't care how many routes you oozed up.
I hope to read about you in "Passages" someday. But jackasses like you seem to live forever.
And yet, the procession of fools hang on your every word.
Will you even feel bad when your advice kills someone?
Are you so self-unaware that you don't know that everyone who knows their left nut from a wired nut can't stand you?
Moof,
Do you know where the femoral artery is?
It has nothing to do with disembowlment.
The inside of your knee is the PERFECT place to put a hook to slice your OTHER femoral artery.
Just stay focused enough to keep your legs apart during a fall, and you'll be fine.
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