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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Nov 28, 2007 - 08:21pm PT
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Wow. What a noble effort! However, my mind quickly goes to a broader issue: the free form of supertopo, in part, moved you to this effort, and perhaps would not be necessary if - I'm putting on my helmet for the slams to come - the entire site were organized by topical areas akin to what many other sites do, climbing and otherwise out in cyberspace. Then, readers can go back quickly by topical area and find and savor stuff, much needed in my view as the number of threads here grows and grows. Of course the objection is posters love the freedom of posting on any topic off the top of their heads with no need to worry about its proper category.
Maybe the question worth pondering is, can we have the best of both worlds - some order and some chaos? Why not some basic categories at least as supplement to the free form single category which now characterizes supertopo? And maybe there can be a section too devoted to "best" of supertopo, as attempted here by Mighty, where he and other brave souls can make their respective "best" indexes?
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 28, 2007 - 10:22pm PT
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Anders, it's a fine idea, don't let the nattering nabobs drag you down. Or load you with all the baggage of their own pet threads.
Edit: I see this came in after Tom's post, but want to be clear it wasn't referring to him -- Tom is certainly no nattering nabob!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nov 29, 2007 - 12:32pm PT
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A nicely indexed permanent repository would be a wonderful thing.
Go Anders!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 29, 2007 - 01:44pm PT
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why not have a "SuperTopo Classics" link page off the SuperTopo pull down menu... and Anders' cataloging (and others?) could go there instead of it falling off page one
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mingus
Trad climber
Grand Junction, Colorado
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Nov 29, 2007 - 02:16pm PT
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"Better to light one candle, than curse the darkness."
Mr. Mighty Hiker, your critiques have their point of view, but I think everyone is in favor of your work compiling these stories. I certainly am...and I think about the days when you had to find a publisher to print this stuff in hard copy. Too many things were lost that are surfacing here, because an editor didn't accept it. This is cyberspace's version of the oral tradition!!
Bust it out! ...and thanks. I look forward to the "Best of SuperTopo." Eric
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2007 - 04:25pm PT
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More to follow when possible. I've circulated the draft to a few who've expressed interest, for comments on organization and content. Something of a collaboration should enhance the end result.
There probably won't be much more to see for the next month. All I can really say is that the product should provide a semi-organized list of threads, all of which are worth a look, and most of which have something to do with climbing. That doesn't mean that there aren't other threads that are worth a look - each to his/her own. And no doubt the organization won't be ideal. But it may be a useful tool - there's a lot of readable and often classic stuff on SuperTopo.
The list will surely fade from the front page (perhaps Chris Mac will find a corner on the site for it?), but I hope to occasionally update it, and in any case am keeping it as a word document, which could be circulated. Whether someone will eventually look through 2001 - 2005 is another matter, but there's undoubtedly lots of stuff there worth keeping.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Nov 29, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
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Jody, I like Ed's idea of having a place on supertopo itself (versus my site) for "classics," however defined; but, I'm still clinging to a bigger fix: topical categories of the sort I've proposed, but keeping the "free form" category as well, as per the current supertopo structure.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
p.s.: Jody, I can be a nattering nabob right with the best of 'em, especially after a Guinness or two.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 29, 2007 - 07:15pm PT
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wtf??
the american legend abides, bisshes. y'all best respect.
werd to ya mutha.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2007 - 07:35pm PT
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Nattering nabobs of negativism was a favourite term of the late unlamented vice-president Spiro Agnew. He used it to refer to the news media. It was created by one of his speech writers.
http://www.answers.com/topic/nattering-nabobs-of-negativism
I'm fairly sure that Agnew nattered, and was a crook, both while sober and when drunk.
It's possible that I'm overly interested in trivia.
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Nov 30, 2007 - 03:19am PT
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I don't know who stinkeye is, but I notice he uses my name on his hotmail email address. Strange. I don't recall ever trying or being able to edit anyone else's posts, as he suggests. That's ridiculous. I have gone back a time or two and corrected the spelling or a lousy sentence in some of my own posts, or fixed some error after I thought about it, and on occasion, very occasionally I have deleted a thread I started because I felt it was either going downhill fast or was becoming a black hole of mean spirits. But I have done no tampering or doctoring as stink says. What does it "reek of", though, to use someone else's name on your email address? Just curious... No evil intended in my question, just honestly curious. I have a feeling stinkeye might be an additional avatar for someone who normally goes by another more familiar name.
Thanks Anders, for your good spirit and your efforts.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
the only coast
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Nov 30, 2007 - 05:10am PT
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mh this is excellent and i'm in awe of the way your mind is taking this jumble and organizing the gems. thank you so much!
let us know if there's anything we can do to help. i would be overextending myself if i offered today, but in two point five weeks when finals are over and school is out for the semester i would be more than willing to pitch in.
cheers, t*R :)
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survival
Big Wall climber
arlington, va
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Nov 30, 2007 - 10:14am PT
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"Wheat to Chaff ratio" MH
Anders, that made me laugh out loud as it was so close to what I was just thinking at that moment. Maybe that can be a selection criteria, although some folks think their chaff is pure wheat!
Maybe geography can be used as well?
Classic CA, Classic CO, etc...
Whatever you do is a contribution. I couldn't dream of taking that on. Good luck!
Bruce
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jstan
climber
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Nov 30, 2007 - 12:41pm PT
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FWIW I have noticed most threads, including the classics, sort of trail off into the noise. If we have a classic thread list ( a good idea) the noise section may get longer on the second and continuing go-rounds.
A personal observation on topical organization. When a student I briefly decided to arrange copies of papers relating to my topic. Very quickly I found papers that belonged under two topics and I found once I misfiled a paper it was irretrievably "lost". All at a huge continuing expense in labour. The resolution I settled on was similar to ST's purely chronological ordering but with the addition of a rating system going from "good", to "excellent", to "crap!" as the papers were of increasing relevance.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Nov 30, 2007 - 01:57pm PT
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So, I said, "p.s.: Jody, I can be a nattering nabob right with the best of 'em, especially after a Guinness or two."
And Jody said, "Well, when are you going to jump on one of these threads and defend me then?"
Well, I was trying for levity, but you raise a good question about posting style. As I watch threads sometimes get personal and nasty (not just on Supertopo but at many sites where, me thinks, the impersonal sign-in encourages same), I've tried to stick to three self imposed rules:
 always use my name
skip Guinness and like beverages before going on line
watch my tone, including letting a draft post sit for a day or two to calm it down.
Generally, I try neither to defend or attack on Supertopo, at least when it comes to people. On ideas and points, I will "defend to the death" I suppose, but still try to keep temperature away from hot as I've learned how counterproductive such tone can be - here, in professional and married life.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Stinkeye,
Wishing that there might be a way to eliminate (at least from one's own thread) malicious or banal submissions that have nothing to do with the thread and simply interrupt it hardly could be called doctoring or editing. I was widely supported in that desire, but I went with the flow that nothing happened in any way to change things. It seems as simple as a few folks having a conversation, and someone enters in and starts slandering or puking green vomit, so to speak. We want to get away from that. Wouldn't you? Or do you like that sort of stuff? Threads make more sense when people are being at least reasonably civil, but there are some who have nothing to offer but some kind of ill spirit, and why should they not be booted? If it were possible, I think a lot of people would be happy to have the option of deleting obscene or unruly posts. But your comments suggest that by expressing that desire and investigating the possibiities and throwing out the question for response is doctoring or editing? I only edit my own mistakes, when I find them. If there were a way to get into someone else's comment and change it, that would be editing or doctoring. All sorts of people here, I have learned, use fictitious names and invent ones so as to establish an anonymity and thereby, apparently, be able to say whatever they want. But until now no one has used my name. I must have done something to offend you. For that I apologize. Why don't you send me a private email and let me know what I did. Maybe we could talk about it or work it out. Was it something I said? Or are you simply on the dark side of the strange controversy that has seemed to follow me throughout my life? Peace, as Karl always says...
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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MH, have you been adding to your list?
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dolomite_said
climber
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I am just a newbie , but the original " Doug Robinson / S.F.H.D." thread (started by "coz") should qualify for some type of recognition it seems .
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coldstonesoup
Mountain climber
outside the taco stand
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Hackin' bolts! Too bad the heart of was "editeded"
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2008 - 01:50pm PT
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Thanks for the enquiries. During autumn 2007 I did some work on the index, and reviewed all threads from June - November 2007 as part of it. Some of course were earlier threads, or got caught by reference. At this point, there are about 32 pages of threads = 600 or 700 anyway. Somewhat sorted as to subject, and including title and URL.
I stopped working on the index in December, as other responsibilities had to take priority. I still hope to return to the project, perhaps in autumn after the FaceLift. Eventually I'd like it to including all informative, interesting or entertaining threads, mostly related to climbing and climbers, back to the start of 2006. It will take a while, though I have a system.
I circulated drafts, or partial drafts, to several people for comment some months ago.
The Growing Up/South Face of Half Dome thread will undoubtedly be in the index. The longest single thread (followed by the "who are you?" thread), and to do with climbing.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 07:15pm PT
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Index = hard work, out of date.
Simplest and most effective:
1) Add tags to each thread... anyone can add a tag that is like a subject keyword. Then everyone can have on their home page or forum page a link to their favorite tags and show all threads with that tag. Anyone who wants to make a compilation and keep it dynamic, just send a note to folks like "hey look for this tag to see all the threads I thought were cool" and then everyone can contribute to it by marking more threads with the same tag.
2) If security nuisances arise (i.e. weenies doing "tag spam" and marking lame threads with popular tags), then the tags can be more complex: associate each tag with the person who tagged it, and then everyone on their home page can define a black-list of people whose tagging input should be ignored. This is the fairly open way of letting anyone tag anything, and individuals decide who they want to tune out. Maximum freedom, minimal censorship, still flexible for folks to weed out the garbage.
3) Can also support "moderated tagging" where someone "owns" a tag they create, and others must request permission to be able to use the same tag. This maintains the integrity of a tagged collection of threads to the spirit of the original creator and prevents it from being hijacked. End users should have the choice of creating a "moderated" or an "open" tag (but still enable end users to black-list tags from certain usernames).
I have a good idea of exactly how to implement this on the back-end DB and will volunteer my design services to work with the site developers should folks think this is a worthy goal.
Things can get more interesting and complicated, but this is enough for major progress without changing the status quo.
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