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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 11, 2008 - 04:57pm PT
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Yeah, when the sh#t hits the fan the Canucks can pull their weight in battle. You gotta respect that!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 11, 2008 - 05:12pm PT
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Here in Ireland, there has been a reckoning of sorts, as many people who see the Irish serving in the British Forces both in WW1 and WW2, as, well, being somewhat traitorous, considering the way that England/Britain has treated Ireland over the centuries.
But that is changing and many people are beginning to look at it differently.
Yesterday was the opening of a Memorial Park in Co Mayo for those who have died in both World Wars. Also there is becoming a better understanding of the Irish who were in the Ulster Regiment and Irish Guards.
On the one hand, one can understand the dislike by some Irish of those Irish people who served under the Crown, but on the other hand, especially concerning WW2, many now see the effort as a noble one.
Yes Eamonn DeValera, perhaps, admired Hitler in some sense, but so did King Edward VIII (before and after he abdicated, apparently).
Anyway, may those people who die in conflicts, rather combatants or innocents, rest in peace.
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Nov 11, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
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Interesting....I have often been curious where the Irish "stood" during the two world wars. Thanks
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Barbarian
Trad climber
all bivied up on the ledge
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Nov 11, 2008 - 05:39pm PT
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Mighty Hiker....well said. A fitting memeorial.
I am a Veteran. The other day I had the opportunity to participate in a Veterans Day ceremony put on by our local high school band. The band director is a good friend of mine and has been putting these concerts on for about 10 years. It is the only remaining event marking Veterans Day in my community.
I had the honor standing on the stage with about 60 Vets that evening and presenting my friend with a a flag that had been flown over the US Capitol building. This is an excerpt from my presentation speech:
"The men and women before you today are all veterans of the Armed Services. Some served in times of peace, some in times of war. Each of them took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies. They took that oath seriously. If you ask them, I’m sure each of them will tell you they still do.
There is something else you should know about these men and women. They are not alone. Each of them represents others who could not be here. Tonight I stand and represent my father and step-father, my father-in-law, an uncle, a brother, two brothers -in-law, and a son-in-law. Veterans all.
I’d like to take brief moment to tell you about one of those Veterans, my father-in-law, Rocky, as he is typical of a lot of Vets. He served in the United States Army during World War II. He enlisted and served in the Navy after that. Rocky’s enlistment photo was framed and sat in his living room. I asked him about it once. He mumbled something about being a jeep driver in Northern Italy and France. Something in the tone of his voice told me that was all he was going to say. I dropped the subject.
Some years ago, Veteran’s Day fell on Sunday. We took the kids out to Rocky’s house for the day. I was helping him with some things in the garage. “Rocky, it’s Veterans Day”, I said. “So what?” he said in his usual curt way. “Thank You.” Rocky looked at me. With little tear in his eye, and a break in his voice, he said “You’re welcome”. We never mentioned it again.
Rocky died a few years ago. He is interred in the Riverside National Cemetery. Another of the many World War II veterans who took his story with him. At his funeral, I found out he had been awarded the Purple Heart for wounds received in combat. Wounds he received while quietly serving his nation. Wounds he never mentioned to any of us.
Veterans don’t often call attention to their service. Most of them do their duty, and then return to civilian life. Unless you are very close to them, you would never know they served. Even then, you might not know much. You might hear about the pranks the guys played on each other or something that happed while on R and R, but you won’t hear about the buddy who saved his life…or the one that didn’t come home. You won’t hear about the fear a young boy barely out of high school feels when he’s half way around the world and asked to be a man. That stays inside…often forever. This is the burden they carry…and part of the debt we owe.
I’d like to thank Jim and the Concert Band for their continuing efforts to recognize veterans of the Armed Services. Jim and the band have been giving these concerts for several years now, long before he came to this school. He’ll tell you its no big deal, but deep down he knows it is.
We live in a strange society. While a holiday has been declared to honor veterans, most of them don’t even get the day off. There used to be parades, but that was too much trouble. Now it is mostly a normal working day. It recently occurred to me that the only time I’ve had Veteran’s Day off was when I was on active duty. For most of America, Veteran’s Day exists only as a sales and marketing holiday. I think that is truly sad.
But, because of the efforts of people like Jim, a number of our younger generation know that Veteran’s Day is not a day to buy a new car, or a mattress, or visit a department store and work on our wardrobes. It is a day to honor those who served their country and secured the freedoms we enjoy every day. Jim understands that.
Yet not only Veterans serve. People all over this country make contributions to this country…and it is entirely appropriate that we set aside a time to recognize them as well. And so, tonight, we will:
Jim, earlier this year I asked that a flag be flown over the United States Capitol building in Washington, DC. Flown in honor of you and your band, in recognition of these Veterans Day Concerts. I would like to present that flag to you now.
I am honored to call you my friend. Thank you for remembering us."
To all you Veterans out there: Thanks for your sacrifice and your service.
To all the others out there: Thank you for remembering us.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 11, 2008 - 05:49pm PT
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Chris2, I am no expert on the matter, but regarding the Great War, something like 40,000-50,000 Irishmen from all 32 counties died in battle, the Battle of the Somme being the one where many Ulstermen lost their lives.
For some time, those Irish people of the Republican/Nationalist persuasion would not recognise the sacrifice that the Irish who died in WW1 gave, and, I suppose, understandably as they were being suppressed by the British in their own homeland for centuries.
Many Irishmen (women to a much lesser extent) served in the British military because there was no place else to find work. I would surmise, perhaps incorrectly, that many of the Irish people that served in the British Army, notably the Irish Guards, did so out of necessity (or 'romance') and not ideology.
Still, they served, and quite valiantly (as did many of various nationalities). As they did on both sides (particularly the Union side) of the War Between the States in the mid-1880s.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 11, 2008 - 06:21pm PT
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One of my grandfathers served in WW I (1917-19), fresh outa Montana. He was badly wounded by a mortar in the leg. He must have lost a lot of blood and passed out, as he was given up for dead and piled into a stack of dead bodies. Somebody was walking by the pile and heard a groan - "Hey - this guy is alive - get him to a medic!". So he survived, got married, had kids, was an insurance claims attorney for the state of Washington, and eventually died of a heart attack after retiring in 1972.
My father was in the Navy in WW II, but was in a ship sailing into the Pacific when the war ended.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 11, 2008 - 06:38pm PT
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May we live up to be the badasses that our fathers and grandfathers were. They were good men and humble souls. They just did what was right, didn't ask for commemoration.
We'll give it to them though, they're worthy!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2008 - 06:39pm PT
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Tami recited John McRae's famous poem, "In Flanders Fields". McRae was a Lieutenant-Colonel in the Canadian Army, a physician, and a poet. The poem was written in 1915, in memory of a friend of McRae's who died at the front, and published anonymously in Punch late that year. McRae died of pneumonia in 1918.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCrae
Oddly, the poem (sonnet) "High Flight", which is often cited by aviators, was written by John Gillespie Magee in 1941, when he was in the RCAF. He died a few months later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gillespie_Magee,_Jr.
"Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of—wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air....
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark nor even eagle flew—
And, while with silent lifting mind I’ve trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 11, 2008 - 06:39pm PT
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In 1919, Newfoundland issued a series of postage stamps called "Trail of the Caribou", which listed places where the Newfoundland contingent saw action in WW I. They didn't have images of battles, just a caribou.
also
Gueudecourt, Beaumont Hamel, Monchy, Steenbeck, Langemarck, Cambrai, Combles. Note: "Ubique" = "everywhere".
http://www.redislandnf.com/redixstam00g15.html
Places otherwise forgotten by most, as time has passed and new lives have replaced the old.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Nov 11, 2008 - 07:43pm PT
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My gramps. He never talked much about the war.
He was in the throes of Alzheimer's when this photo was taken, he didn't even recognize me. I felt very very bad.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 11, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
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No shoes, Alzheimer's is nasty, hopefully someday we figure out how to treat crap like that.
You'r Gramps looks like a sweet old man.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Nov 11, 2008 - 09:02pm PT
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Thanks BR.
He was a strong figure when I was young. It was devastating to see him change.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2008 - 01:44am PT
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Newfoundland was an independent dominion in 1914 - 1918. It didn't become part of Canada until 1949. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment was much more than decimated during World War I, particularly at the Battle of the Somme. On July 1st, 1916, the first day of the battle, 730 of the 801 soldiers in the regiment went over the top at Beaumont-Hamel. The next day, only 69 men answered the roll call: 255 were dead, 386 were wounded, and 91 were listed as missing. Every officer who had gone over the top was either wounded or dead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royal_Newfoundland_Regiment
It devastated a tiny country - virtually every family lost someone.
One last bump - you don't have to be a physicist to bump.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
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Nov 12, 2008 - 02:42am PT
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I just wanted to post a tribute to my father-Francis Raymond Stacey- who was a veteran of World War II. He arrived at Pearl Harbour the day after the attacks and ended up serving in the Pacific theater. He survived, but according to his brother he was never the same after returning from the war. I would wager he had PTSD what they called "shell shock" back in the day. He suffered from depression and for the most part became a recluse, he loved me though!
He died the day before my 14th birthday in 1973 he was only 59 yrs old.
Thanks to all you Vets out there, we owe so much to you, may God bless!!!!
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Nov 12, 2008 - 10:50am PT
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A remembrance to my father who served in two wars, my friends who have also served.
thank you,
Brian
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 12, 2008 - 11:12am PT
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A fine thread, Anders.
My dad was on the Tarawa, a new carrier in the Pacific destined for the coming
invasion of Japan. Harry Truman's awful decision ending the war and so many lives
might well have saved his, along with thousands of others.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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My father enlisted in the Canadian army in mid-1944, after he turned 18 and finished high school. He was serving at Tofino on the west coast of Vancouver Island when his brother died, and would also probably have been involved in any invasion of Japan.
Instead, he was demobilized late that year, and enrolled in engineering at the University of Saskatchewan. His first two years or so were covered by veteran's benefits - the government learned from what happened after World War I, and had economic and social policies to provide for veterans, and allow a relatively smooth return to civilian life and a peacetime economy.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 12, 2008 - 05:49pm PT
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My Father,
Lt(?) Carl William Anderson of the US Army Air corp, from a time before I met him.
Back when we were cranking the rads, togehter he looked more like this
Devil's Lake 1966
(I was there too)
Summit of Long's Peak, August 1969
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 12, 2008 - 06:16pm PT
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I see where you got your taste for the W I D E, your Dad looks good in that chimney!
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JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
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Aug 30, 2009 - 03:39am PT
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On Leave,
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Maternal grandpa, grandma.Mom, Dad, Mom's sisters(Louise and Lois, look out dadz!)
Baby Cecelia in front, my super healthy 65 year sister.
Good thread MH,
I look at these old pics and marvel that they managed to raise progeny at all.
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