Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2007 - 10:29pm PT
|
At the very least we end up with an interesting discussion spurred by a fragment written in five minutes.
JL
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
Let's go for economy here.
STONEMASTERS: high hopes, low slung jeans, & big dreams (so much to gain & so little to loose).
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
Ok, so I mostly ripped that last (bit) from Bridwell.
And I do like Hobo Dan's rendition.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
I deny being stylish.
(Thread drift invades Largo's thread. Is nothing sacred?)
|
|
Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
|
|
Are we going to have to memorize this to get into the club? He he.
Cuz if we do, I say shorter is better.
Otherwise I kinda liked Mal's slightly modified version of the Original.
Largo Edit: You should always go with your first instinct.
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
I like Melissa’s notes above.
John: I can’t believe you still are writing like this. Real hugs anyway .
It’s 2007.
Are you trolling us? Obviously. You are very very bright.
It was a fantastic group, Beat really, as in the older days. And continued. In our prime. Most of it happened after I was through risking my life every day in major Trad. Way back in 1963-1978.
The notion of a Club---Johno, you know better for Christ’s sake---is actually repugnant. Can you cast this differently?
There is no doubt that that Mid Period in the seventies, is worth essaying, writing about, and obviously you have started this project. I am glad.
But I would suggest you temper this notion of yours, that the experimentation was ALL THAT otherworldly and boundary-less. You guys left quite an enormous bit left to try on all levels, of course. I am sure you understand.
best,
Peter Haan
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
Man we are an unruly bunch.
And so is a small paragraph, a slogan, an unruly bunch of words.
But it is rewarding to crack it just so.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
My thoughts about this would partly depend on the audience that is being sought, and also on the purpose.
I believe a collection of semi-historical stories about the Stonemaster era would be very worthwhile and entertaining, particularly if there were several contributors. The era, the people and characters, their adventures, and their feelings. And perhaps a look back. The stories need to be told - it's one way that those coming after will learn about and appreciate their forebears.
Writing a good introduction will be an enormous challenge.
It might be interesting to add some other informed perspectives, e.g. those of people such as Royal Robbins, Steve Roper, or Yvon Chouinard, all of whom wrote climbing stories if not history. Or even views of climbers from other places and times. A kind of festschrift.
Particularly as some Stonemasters are still quite active, it may be too early for a real insight into their place in the history of climbing. Clearly significant, based on the objective evidence of what they did and how they did it, and how they influenced others. But good history requires distance, time, and thought about historiography. As Zhou Enlai supposedly said when asked about the impact of the French Revolution: "It's too early to tell".
Climbing writing is considered by literary mavens to be an odd sub-genre of travel writing. One of the features of such writing is that the plots are usually simple - getting to a destination, how we got there, who we met along the way, what we saw, and what we did. The Odyssey is the oldest and perhaps still best example, and is highly entertaining. It also introduces some deeper themes about human nature and behaviour. A lot of travel writing piles on the adjectives, tells colourful stories, and otherwise does its very best to evade the reality that it's not saying anything profound.
Of course, it's impossible to put into words the joie de vivre, camaraderie and challenge you all shared. You have to try, but don't forget the perils of myth creation.
One technique that can be useful is to write something, then go back and eliminate all the adjectives and adverbs. Make the thing stand on its own, and see what it looks like without all the decorations. It gives you insight into the substance of what you're saying. The difficulty with this is that John's writing is as much poem as prose. I had a shot at parsing his credo, but gave up.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
Anders you are such fun!
Festschrift: a volume of writings by different authors presented as a tribute or memorial especially to a scholar.
… I also socked away the rest of what you just wrote.
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
|
|
Hmmmm, a bunch of egotistical young maniacs devoted themselves to climbing and said 'f#ck it!' to everything else and then egged each other into heinous acts of bravery/foolishness and you want to start a club?!
I wouldn't join a club then and I won't now either.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Carrying on Jan's cheerful theme, a sociologist commenting on the Stonemasters might have some interesting and perhaps not entirely comfortable thoughts.
|
|
graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
|
|
Good comments all
I always read between the lines (a bad habit of mine). Not sure where I read “Club” in all this though?
Keep em coming
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Thank you, Kevin. Problem #1 of historiography: define who and what you're talking about, in a way that makes sense.
Or, as Groucho Marx (?) put it, never join any club that will have you for a member.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
Make some durable white pants and we'll talk about my words.
I mean, fek already, just make em.
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
I have the sense that the Stonemasters, as they are now called, were at the time unaware of being anything other than climbers, with individual goals and desires and links one to another. It seems some things develop in retrospect. Yet there is nothing wrong with that. I would not, however, convey that it was all any sort of clear idea from the start or during it all.
When I used Master of Rock to describe Gill, a truly unique artist of climbing to whom no one would ever compare then or later, it was no longer possible to use those words in that same way without thinking about him, and thus people all around tried different uses of words to describe their own favorite climbers, i.e. rock masters, masters of stone, stone masters, etc., and such phrases, for me, began to take on a very "worldly" connotation, if you will. Again, I am not being critical. What I find interesting here, though, is that the term Stonemasters describes now a group of people, which is a whole different sense than an individual, and, I think, unique.
I like the ideas expressed above, about letting individuals tell their own stories. Plant the flag of "Stonemasters" at the top of the page, with some simple "credo," and let it develop in its own organic way.
I would suggest getting away from the notion, however, that these individuals blew standards completely away, as someone above said. There were plenty of really remarkable climbers all around the country and the planet at that time. The Stonemasters had their beautiful day in the sun, for certain, but in some context of their own. That context, that very personal world, would be a worthy project to try to describe, avoiding any sense, however, of great, all-encompassing superiority. Yes they had their specialized ways and triumphs and breakthroughs, and, at some things, were "superior." But not in all ways, by any means, or so as to overshadow the talents in other worlds beyond their own.
Just a few late night thoughts and suggestions.
|
|
wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
|
|
Just an idea:
No words on the labels, just a pic of a classic line and the stonemaster logo in the lower corner. Attach the tag with a bit of cord and a re-useable metal clip.
|
|
James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
|
|
The credo makes the "Stonemasters" into heroes, men two steps ahead of mere mortals. My impression of the Stonemasters was of a super committed bunch of climbers, knitted together through their obsession with Yosemite, Joshua Tree, Suicide..., and their passion for hippie lettuce.
Tell the story simply. For men so bad ass, there's no need for "fine writing."
|
|
TwistedCrank
climber
Caution: Filling may be hot.
|
|
It's fun to label and catagorize and sloganize and credoize but I really don't think it adds any value to the stonemasters concept.
Just tell the story. There's enormous value in the stories alone - more than can ever added to by giving a paranthetical second title to the stonemaster's history.
These are stories that I pass on to my kids: "I read this story once about this guy Tobin, who..."
edit: removed unitentional reference to the salad bowl. Thanks Kevin.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
Thirty years of commitment to adventure, born of rock and lightning, the spawn, those of restless spirit and dangerous dreams, have come and gone but the Stonemaster remains, till the end of time, a springboard into the Great Unknown.
|
|
graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
|
|
Nice Ed
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!