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crackfiend
climber
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Interesting ideas, especially regarding hauling and the cuts they make. Far end hauling only?
I agree the nps will inevitably step in and change how they manage that resource.
So regarding fixed anchors, do you propose fixed gear installed at severely blown out placements to eliminate any further damage? fixed nuts seem like too much of a liability, nps would probablly just slap some fatty bolts in there. spaceshot seems like the problem child here as touchstone and moonlight have less damage from gear placements though some serious rope cuts.
I am interested in this because through climbing in the park a lot and through my job in springdale I come into contact with a lot of climbers and am in a position to promote "cleaner" climbing techniques.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Fixed nuts with distinctively thick, marked cables (and each party completes a form after the climb, part of the song and dance, to indicate/assure condition of route).
Assessments are deducted from prepaid deposits according to impact behaviors performed. Completion bonds are forfeit if party bails, unless the party bails due to rain in which case they are given an opportunity to renew their permit.
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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It's worth noting that there is a shitload of other sandstone in this state too - yeah they are not as tall, but I suspect a FA somewhere in the swell or the reef would still be spicey, and never see any more traffic if you don't tell anyone where it was, exactly...
(.02$ from someone organizing his pin rack over here for just such madness...)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I'm onto your game pelted one.
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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word ;-) i got a couple spots in mind too - still need a better reckon before i commit though...
and how do you pro that horrid layer of grey sugar ? run it out, pound in a bong and pray ? that stuff crumbles just looking at it...
edit : i think the key is not to take the sandstone for granite (badum bam crash !)
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s. o.
Trad climber
academia
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I say bring on the wear, prodigal sun will be splitter #2's in a few years.
If there is one thing that is preserving zion routes it is those damn falcons. I hear they taste like chicken.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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They DO taste like chicken but the flaring will preclude the use of 2s.
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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This completion bond idea delights me. You could pay down the national deficit with this thing.
(I know you can hear me, Olevsky.)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I'm not excluding FAers, but a smart system would include subsequent small partial credits from subsequent parties.
In theory a FA party could pay the fees to put up a route that could be so popular that they would never have to pay to climb in Zion again.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Hey Ryan,
my routes are not THAT popular, are they?
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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This hypothetical FA party, in theory, would hypothetically never have to work again.
(Now I KNOW you can hear me.)
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"This completion bond idea delights me"
That reminds me of Lil Tony Blair.
What about snail eye at the base? That's got to be the lowest form of impact next to snail eye at the car.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"In theory a FA party could pay the fees to put up a route that could be so popular that they would never have to pay to climb in Zion again."
I don't get it. I thought the idea was to discourage impact.
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Snail eye at the base is $10.00. In the car, on the house.
Ron, your routes are almost as popular as the bailing off of them, hahaha.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Ryan,
I said credit (towards future climbs/impact) not PAYMENT.
Snail eye forfeits completion bond and use impact fees as it precludes other parties (who lost the permit raffle) from experiencing the route in fair conditions. The money paid goes into the preservation fund that pays specifically for the monitoring/maintainance/management of the resource.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Melissa,
the idea is to use the resource to provide high quality/ low-impact climbs and then to enjoy and take good care of them without requiring non-climbers to foot the bill (and thereby justify regulating the activity).
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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I guess I'm misreading your bit above b/c it sounds to me like you're saying that the FAist will profit from the popularity of the route? Surely I'm missing something there?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Reread the part about credit Melissa.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"I said credit (towards future climbs/impact) not PAYMENT."
Who gives credit to whom and for what, precisely? I'm not arguing w/ you...I'm just not understanding you.
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