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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2004 - 02:07pm PT
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Jay would you go to a priest medical advice? No sane person would, regardless of how much he/she knew about medicine. Then why would you go to a doctor for spiritual advice? It is like asking PTPP to baby sit your daughter (not a good idea) although there may be no ultimate harm in it.
As Clayman said “Cultivating a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ and having his guidance is truly amazing and life altering.” That is great for him and if he wants to talk to other people who feel the same way then good for them. Just keep it to yourself and leave me and anyone else who isn’t asking out of it.
I have my own personal beliefs, and they are just that, personal.
Jay, my comment not was directed at you. It is directed at anyone who thinks their beliefs are better than the beliefs of others. You wouldn’t want me to tell you how to climb a route, so tell me how my relationship with god (or lack there of) should be.
If you want to hear someone speak about the word of god or you want others to talk to about god, then go to church. Agreed, the first amendment protects all speak, even offensive speak. When you preach to those who don’t want to listen it is OFFENSIVE!
Jay, funny how you disbelieve the internet crap I posted, but fully believe the crap you linked to. Frankly, I have no idea what this doctors beliefs are (it is all internet static), given the internet postings. But something stinks. Mixing medicine, religion, and politics is a sure recipe for disaster.
Freedom of religion is the same as the freedom from religion.
Jody: the more you post the more your ignorance shows through. No one has got an issue with same sex marriage, except you and those close-minded people like you. I still don’t understand how gay marriage has any affect you?
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2004 - 02:17pm PT
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Maybe there is still hope? I came across this article after posting the long rant above.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/20/academy.religion.ap/index.html
AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colorado (AP) -- The Air Force Academy's longtime football coach has agreed to remove a Christian banner from the team's locker room after school administrators announced they would do more to fight religious intolerance.
Coach Fisher DeBerry agreed Friday to remove the banner, which displayed the "Competitor's Creed," including the lines "I am a Christian first and last ... I am a member of Team Jesus Christ."
DeBerry put the banner up Wednesday to encourage the team, which has experienced one of its worst seasons in recent years, academy spokesman Lt. Col. Laurent Fox said.
A day earlier, academy Superintendent Lt. Gen. John W. Rosa announced the school would do more religious tolerance training after some nonreligious cadets reported on a survey that they felt ostracized. Others reported hearing religious slurs or jokes.
Outgoing Air Force Secretary James Roche issued a statement Friday backing the academy's effort. "Our policy is clear. Tolerance of gender, racial, ethnic and religious diversity is required at our Air Force," Roche said.
In September, academy officials issued a memo explaining the government's e-mail policy after some staffers put biblical verses at the bottom of their e-mails. Some cadets were admonished in March for using academy e-mail accounts to encourage other people to see "The Passion of the Christ," Mel Gibson's movie about the crucifixion.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 21, 2004 - 05:33pm PT
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In the absence of God, the devil has a clear field to work.
Separation of church and state doesn't mean the governement should ban religion. Only 1) not establish an official religion, and 2) allow freedom of religion.
The assaults on the expression of faith in our schools only has the opposite effect. Do liberal Democrats really want to be identified with the devil?
Sincere faith and prayer is all good, no downside, no side effects. Try it Mick. It won't hurt.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Nov 21, 2004 - 05:52pm PT
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Hhahahahaha, Go MM go,
man those are some nice big-assed blinkers ya got running there.
but...but..But what about all those other religions who don't belive in a devil, what about all those people in this country who are spiritual but not religious that have to tolerate their tax dollars being spent on Christian dogma and ideology in the public square? Where is the govt. when the Jews, Shikhs, Hindus, Muslims and whatever else passes for an orgaizied religion isn't given the same attention by the govt.? Where is the equal protection in that?
I guess there's no room for them either eh. But since they're not of the "true" belief, they are not to be trusted or equaled.
Better hunker down dude, it's gonna be a long winter
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 21, 2004 - 06:01pm PT
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Can't say,
You didn't refute a single thing I said.
This is a Christian country, respecting all other religions. People can believe anything they want, even new age psychobabble. Ha ha. But liberals try to use the fairness argument to ban the expression of religion. It ain't gonna happen.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 21, 2004 - 06:02pm PT
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The Unholy Trinity member who appears here should perhaps join his polyester-wearing Bee-Gee listening alter ego and his orchestra-directing baton-waving friend, for they are indeed three in one. Make mark that I had been striving to decipher this riddle for some time.
I am tired of being flamed by individuals so cowardly and so lame he needs at least three fake user names to write hearsay about me. To hide behind a fake identity to flame someone is bad enough - how much more cowardly and amusing is it that this same individual is so weak he needs to back up his own lies with other fake identities?
Example: 'Joe Rock' writes, "Pete did this. I saw it." Then 'Fred Rock' writes, "You're right! I saw it too." Then 'Steve Rock' writes, "Not only that, but ....." So one individual perpetuates lies by appearing to be three. It looks like there are three people telling the truth, because their stories support each other. But it's not three people, it's only one person. And the stories repeated by each are not truth, they are lies, but they support each other only because Joe, Fred and Steve are the same person. Get it? One individual, three user names, each repeating the same lies or not-quite-truths and each supporting each other in an attempt to appear credible. This approach fooled me for several years, but not any more.
It has come to my attention that there are certainly two if not three individuals in SuperTopo who are doing this. This has perplexed me for years, because the numbers didn't add up. There are too many detractors in too small a SuperTopo pool - and the sampling isn't representative of what I've observed in the real world of Yosemite and elsewhere. It just didn't make arithmetic sense to me.
I maintain a person's credibility is only as good as their identity. If one's identity is so fragile one needs three false identities to spread lies, then my heart goes out to him, for clearly he is a man with Serious Issues. I've suffered through my own identity crisis as a youth, and I am secure in who I am. You might not like me, and I can accept that. I cannot accept, however, lies being perpetuated as though they were factual. This is malicious and unfair, but is more indicative of the identity of the persecutor than that of the victim.
Thanks be to God that in Christ, our identities are secure! As a Believer, I don't have to do anything to win the approval of God - I am credible exactly as I am, which is without any credibility whatsoever beneath the throne of the Almighty Yawheh[!] God loves me and accepts me in spite of me being a sinner of the worst sort. God's love is unconditional - he loves me even though I'm a jackass sometimes. Jesus paid the price for my stupidity once and for all, and I don't have to keep striving to achieve something that has already been done for me. I'm still pretty crusty round the edges - I'm a "work in progress." God isn't finished with me yet! At least, I hope not!
I continue extending olive branches, because it is part of my identity. If God can forgive me for all the bad stuff I've done, then who am I not to forgive anyone who has hurt me? In fact, I don't even have a choice. Jesus was pretty clear about this. I have to pray for those who persecute me.
Even though it's not easy sometimes, I try to practise what I preach. This has been difficult of late, but I continue to try. If you are in any way interested, may I ask you to please click on [url="http://www.srcfc.org/pitonpete.asp"]my message of love, forgiveness and reconciliation?[/url]
Yours in Him,
"Praise the LORD and Pass the Pitons" Pete
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2004 - 07:21pm PT
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MM:
How do you know I don't pray or that I am not "christian."
My point continues to be: "It is personal, between me and my god (if I choose to beleive in one)."
The goverment has no business getting anywhere near anyones faith or lack thereof. You are so blinded by the BS shoved down your throat by "organized" religon that you can't see the downside.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 21, 2004 - 07:26pm PT
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Whoa Mick,
I don't care what you worship, but your antagonism towards Christianity should suggest a lack of faith. May I point out the statements you made at the start of this thread?
I don't see religion being shoved down anyone's throat. Got any examples, or is this just another liberant rant, full of emotion and lacking reason.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Nov 22, 2004 - 12:38am PT
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Prayer does work. Just not in the way that the guys on TV throwing coats at people want you to believe it does. There is a massive and growing amount of very real, very effective intent-based healing that goes on by legitimate healthcare practitioners every day. Quantum-physicists call it intent. Bible thumpers call it prayer. Choose your title, its the same ish.
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2004 - 11:19am PT
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MM, you just don't get it. Your statement "This is a Christian country" is a prime example of organized religion being forced on the masses. This is not a Christian country, although It is a country of mostly Christians.
You don't know anything about my faith and I shouldn't know anything about yours, unless I ask you first.
Let me try to interject a climbing angle.
MM would you stand for me telling you what style (one assent, light and fast 3 day ascent or two week party trip) to climb the Nose on EC? Answer truthfully
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Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
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Nov 22, 2004 - 11:27am PT
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I'm not going to argue with this anymore. I will say that Pete has a lot of courage to continue on the way he does considering his opposition. I don't know you from a haul bag of potatoes but kudos to you.
Mick, you have a right to feel and believe what you will, don't let your opposition kill you either. Like the rest of us, your struggle is inward not outward.
And to the rest, peace.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 22, 2004 - 02:33pm PT
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May the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you always
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 22, 2004 - 02:44pm PT
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Ok, I didn't read most of the above. Mostly because either Jody or PTPP had something to say an I no longer read their posts. Sadly that means I didn't read most everything else because it somehow responded to their posts.
Try glucosamine, chondritin and MSM for joint relief (or smoke a phaty).
Try a good two or three day raw food diet to help with PMS. Heck, next time you turn into a "bitch" (boys and girls alike), try some water and a big phat salad (with nothing cooked). Your blood pH will move move alkaline and you'll feel better and happier in no time.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 22, 2004 - 03:23pm PT
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Nature-excellent suggestions, thanks.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Nov 22, 2004 - 04:45pm PT
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>Then tell them to quit trying to cut God out of everyone's >life. Remember, the First Amendment also talks about >Government's infringement upon religious freedom.
LOL, you guys remind me of smokers whining about "smoker's rights" Whenever the govt. passes a law that says you can't infringe upon other people's air with carcenogenic smoke they complain their rights are infringed. Huh? Who said you can't smoke? You just can't impose it upon other people. Same thing with religion. Who said you can't practice your religion in any private way? We just don't want you imposing your beliefs on us.
What is Islam was the dominant religion here, would you want your tax dollars supporting it?
One nation "under God" is a great example. I don't want my son in a public school reciting that with the attached peer pressure. He'll be informed enough to make his own decisions about what he believes but it's a matter of principle to me that he is not coerced to say that.
This is not a Christain nation it's a secular nation. We tried that route and it failed. The people on the Mayflower also tried a communist system and that failed too. Part of what makes America great is freedom and freedom means a secular system. How can you not get that? Why do I even bother trying to explain. I'm a pragmatic centrist but you'll just label me as an SUPER-ULTRA-MEGA FAR-LEFT LIBERAL because that's how you want to see it because it supports your self serving, the end supports the means, seflish world view.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 22, 2004 - 04:53pm PT
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Dear Mr. Fet,
I was enjoying your post greatly until the hysteria of the last two sentances. I think it would have been stronger and more persuasive without going into hyperspace. But that's your call, and my observation.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 22, 2004 - 04:54pm PT
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the Fet - well said.
"Why do I even bother trying to explain. I'm a pragmatic centrist but you'll just label me as an SUPER-ULTRA-MEGA FAR-LEFT LIBERAL because that's how you want to see it because it supports your self serving, the end supports the means, seflish world view. "
That's why they are "spinners". It's gotta work in their mind regardless of reality. I guess it's sort of lieing to yourself.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 22, 2004 - 06:50pm PT
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Nature,
May I retor? Mr. Fet gave a fine explanation of his point, then out came the accusations, which transformed the point into the mishmash of rant. You applauded his rant.
I'd like a greater degree of civility in these discussions. I've never called Mr. Fet anything, but when I hear arguments which are only heard on the far left, why not call it as it is? I mean, you should be proud of being a liberal, even if the vast majority of Americans reject your creed.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 22, 2004 - 07:34pm PT
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I'm PMSing alright! Not enough raw food today I guess.
Ok Jody, I will say I do read some of your posts. I ignore the political/religious ones because I heard it before and I'm pretty tired of the same old story. I'm also trying to get out of that arguement (get away from political/religios discussion) I look at your pictures and enjoy them. I read things about your Dad (though I'm not convinced you are not adopted - and I make that statement based on climbing ablity alone ;-).
It is wrong of me to put you and pee-on-pete in the same category. To that I do appologize. He is a 100% loser that almost killed one of my best friends. You are a nice guy from what folks say. You're "nice" enough to keep your posts short. You obviously are not typing for the simple sake of reading your own words. You believe in what you write and even though I disagree almost 100%, you at least try at times to engage in a two-way converstion (though misguided your side may be in my opinion). F*#k-face seems to read only his posts.
"Nature, I am really disappointed in you. I guess I was giving you more credit than you deserved."
I really could care less about this. If I've been given any credit in the past it was more than I deserved from you. (don't take this as a negative - you don't know me to judge either way.)
MM, do you climb? You don't seem to post about climbing. IF so, do some spraying about climbing instead of leaching on to these political and religious discussions, huh? Just a thought in between PMSing.
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dufas
Trad climber
san francisco
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Nov 22, 2004 - 07:42pm PT
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nature, you gonna be OK? man, Jody's disappointed in you, that's harsh.
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