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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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There still is a climbing community;....it has changed over the years; especially in So. California. This is for a number of reasons. "Back in the Day" (Here we go again.....)...you could go up to Suicide Rock or Tahquitz , or the parking lot of Hidden Valley, or Yosemite;....and know 90% of the climbers there......THAT is community. What has changed things? Here is MY take on the situation. 1) Climbing gyms; why go to the crags when it's easier, faster, warmer, more social....to go to the gym. Then came the gym mutants;...which were different than "real" climbers. "Clicky" gym communities are oftentimes oblivious to the "real" world of outdoor climbing and "livin' the life" climbing bums 2) Pay campsites and pay to get into Joshua Tree Nat. Park, and other places..........this hurt our community of cheap-ass clmbing bums 3) The limit of stay in Joshua Tree, Yosemite, etc.......hurt the community 3) Closing of the Gordon Ranch ( That was my wife's fault;....she almost single-handedly ruins So. Calif. Climbing community....).. Where else can you live, year after year, for free or for peanuts, at a climber flophouse near a world famous climbing area?......and have Grant Hiskes cook you up some healthy slop on top of it? 4) Slack-lining and boulder/pad people to further break-up the previously single-minded climbers 5) Add more women to the sport;...this ...although fun on paper, always mixes up an already messed up sub-group...if it's got tits or an engine;...it's gonna be trouble 6) Extreme sports diversity;......climbing, base-jumping, snowboarding, mountainbiking, slack-lining, para-gliders, hang-gliding, etc.....if you want to do it all, it's gonna be less time at the crags. 7) A focus on "higer numbers".......if you are going to climb 5.12-5.14......you have to exercise, sleep, and get rid of the bad habits;.....less time to drink, party, get high, and " socialize".....thus another blow to the "community." ......8) Gas prices increase;.....less $ to travel to the crags, less socialization, less community 9) Our society and media promoting "rad, gen X, X-games, dude, skater/surfer/skiier mountain dew type city people to get into climbing;......it's an awkward fit for many city folk. 10) Media whore self-promoting , chest-beating, number spewing , sponcered, photograph-poparazzi-type celebrity hyped I'm-better-than -you, magazine cover-boy/girl type ego-maniacs who don't fit into a real community 11) More loss of free camping, free parking, free climbing, free anything;...... 12) Rap-bolting, sport-climbing, city folk who don't know how to poop outside, sleep under the stars, take a slug off a whiskey bottle or a hit off a bong. 13) More people in the sport, more diversity;....less familiarity.....14) Wierd cyber-worlds of computor geek climbing robots like the supertopo sub-world... ... In spite of this;......there IS still a community;...it's alive and strong;...just metamorphed a bit;.....every time I go to a crag, anywhere in the world;....I feel at home, always meet cool people, and always get taken care of;......yeah;...maybe by "strangers" ...but not really , "strangers."....my climbing bros and sisters that I just meet, or are " friends of a friend" or whatever;....climbers are like Mormans or Jehovah's Witnesses;...they love their own and take care of each other. Almost all my friends are either teachers from work, or climbers.....and I have a great life. Things change, and as things get "bigger"......it's sort of like going from corner store to Walmart........it's all good;...make it happen, ......beer, bolts, and babes......go climb a rock. Climbing been very, very good to me.....
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Bwahahahaaa M3. I'll make you squeal like a chicken!
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
Lanham MD
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Man, I gotta move.
Hopefully when I'm closer to the valley I can take part in more facelift-like endeavors.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Yes the community is real. I couldn't believe all you people coming together and helping me and others when the chips are down.
Thanks again - I will never forget it.
As climbers we have one thing in common - we'll hold the rope for our partner and catch them if they fall. There aren't many sports like this!
See ya' at the crags brothers and sisters of the stone - jb
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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funniest line in a while goes to Todd: "...if it's got tits or an engine...it's gonna be trouble"
probably should have said :"...gonna cause trouble..." as it is usually the reaction to the presence of such rather than the existence..
funny none the less
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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The community is the thing. My daughter and I went to the face lift to spend time together in a place she has known and loved since before she could remember, (~ 9 months old just before her first ramones concert.)
Like most of us, esp at age 17, she can be shy around new people. A huge number of people made a strong effort to make her feel comfortable. Crimp, NiTa, Ken, Anders, Ed h (though they had already met)and more than I can recall pitched in; truly, thanks all! That is one part of what community is all about!
We drove out on sunday a bit late, too late to climb, considering our itinerary, so I pointed out a bunch of stuff we could enjoy climbing together someday (she is jonesing reg on f-view). She looked on and was psyched, then she dropped a bombshell;
"Maybe next summer when I'm out of school, and you're not teaching, we can take a month off and just climb here."
Where, along her phylogenetic tree, have I heard that one before?
Anyway, thanks all,
I truly can't thank you enough!
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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and I still owe you a guitar lesson or 3 jaybro...ya know, it was you asking me if i was going that actually pushed me off the fence and into SF 1...
it occurred to me somewhere towards the end of the drive home from the facelift, between thoughts of how many cigarette butts make a pound and whether any people winging by on the green dragon thought we picked up every week/month/whatever and just hucked their trash off - it occurred to me that perhaps being one of the loudest and latest to bed in camp was somewhat disrespectful to the rest of you trying to sleep. in the spirit of community, i ask this question, since this wasn't mainly a party but rather mainly the facelift, and the party shouldn't distract from that...
i like this community, these freaks with ropes and far too much gear, or no gear, just people that get why we do what we do...you people rock !
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jody and Locker!
That's BS.
At least as far as Super Topo goes, and it goes pretty far to establish what the climbing community feels like to me, you two are central players.
Don't ever change,
Let's do lunch!
(The same goes for the rest of you Taco Crunchers)
We really do have something here that spans decades and a great diversity of lifestyles: the whole thing is smartly pinned together with a deeply felt common interest. I don't think that many folks out there have something this far reaching in their lives.
Cheers,
Tarbaby
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jody,
It is easy to find differences between people. The challenge is to see beyond that and find the common interests between people and that is where friendships are built.
Ken
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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We are all more alike than we are different.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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I dunno Jody,
You are far less likely to bogart a joint than most of these moochers, so that's a plus?
(I'm sure that's been said before...) haha.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2007 - 09:00pm PT
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Well, I have seen back biting at Stoney which appeared to increase once Bob Kamps passed away. (I always thought of him the unofficial MC of Stoney that indirectly kept us align. "I really miss him.")
I believe that even though people are imperfect, can really screw up, etc; it shouldn't cause any big trouble. In fact if we are really a family/community, we should accept our occasional black sheep and let them be like your annoying Aunt &%#* who you hate but still put up with at Christmas. It is true that we would never normally hang out with that person, be friends with them... Despite this we must focus that in this sport no one owns the rock. We must share it even when it takes the extent of not saying a word to each other even if you are climbing right next to them. We still can be in the same place, love the same thing and be descent to each other.
I think if we can't get along with people that are not like us, we become just a click. I really hate clicks since it create environments that excludes people on shallow pretenses that remind me of high school.
That is my two cents...
AF
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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"the best part about climbing for me is being with a friend or two in the mountains"
And such is true for many of us Jody.
Obviously, there's is no reason to push the point, and not to be too naive about things, but, by virtue of your participation on the forum, I say you are part of the community.
Cheers,
Roy
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
northern cali fall with the sunshine
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this is a good thread. i love the supertalko lovelies, for real. i love you i love you i love you... "read some byron shelly and keats / recited it over a hip.hop.beat."
sometimes people come into our lives for a little while, at just the right time, for just the right reason. maybe there is something we have to give them that they need, or maybe they are there to help us get back up on our "A" game. i love how so many climbers are open to eachother. i was thinking about that on the way down from the mtns. yesterday. it was really really cold, but really really pretty, and the few people who were out were really really nice :)
climbing seems the most fulfilling when you start from the center (heart) and work your way out. i think community is the same way :)
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jaybro: I really enjoyed hanging with Natalie. I am really glad to hear she enjoyed herself there. I hope you guys get your month in the valley. What a grand TR that will make!
Oh, and I'm still sorry about the Flaming Moth Suicide.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Flaming Moth Suicide
or "Hump Crimpie and Die"
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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*hangs head*
I have a way with males, eh? :)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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moths hump?
more like backing into each other...
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M3(mad moderate mtnr)
Mountain climber
Sac'to, CA
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Ken's response to Jody "It is easy to find differences between people. The challenge is to see beyond that and find the common interests between people and that is where friendships are built."
truly demonstrates how he'be able to bring together such a motley crew (Hippie Christians, PaganBoys, FishEaters {I'm still catholic, so I can get away w/ that one! ;-}, Atheist hedonists, Crack-climbing Cops, outcasts, downcasts, and even Hollywood Casts {posers, anyone).
Where do I fit in? Not sure, but certainly was amazed at how well both I & my family (NON-climbers!) were able to be absorbed into this community event. As Todd Gordon so astutely summed up (as an anthropologist, I had to preserve your words, by the way, w/ credits), the community changes, but still rocks.
I do feel that somehow, in this crazy "thing" called climbing, ancient and perhaps innate sense of "tribe" comes into being.
Anyway, I'm probably drifting, and gotta work in the AM, but still want to say I can't thank all of you enough.
And hey Bachar, thanks for the new pair of hightops!
M3
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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What sphinx of cement and aluminum bashed open
their skulls and ate up their brains and imagi-
nation
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!