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murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
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Sep 23, 2007 - 02:12am PT
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awesome picture.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Sep 23, 2007 - 02:22am PT
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Kevin Worrall photo.
Ken
P.S. The Falls were pounding and you could feel it in the rock. Awesome experience!
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2007 - 12:21pm PT
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I love the Grit, but the only real trad routes there are the ones that were established ground up - not rehearsed on top rope.
On another note: Elbsandstein seems pretty trad to me (including the routes that do have bolts).
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 23, 2007 - 12:45pm PT
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Ken - Tell Jstan that there's a Henry Barber Vertigo Direct mystery awaiting awaiting him. Have an awesome time beauticians!
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Sep 23, 2007 - 01:00pm PT
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I am insanely jealous that I am not in Yosemite already. Time has slowed to a crawwwwwllllllll....
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Sep 23, 2007 - 02:24pm PT
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"No rap bolting at the Gunks or Seneca?"
None at Seneca, and almost none at the Gunks. The Arrow and Sente had bolts placed on them on rappel by Willie Crowther in 1960. This practice did not continue, with just an exception or two, until a few climbers started placing bolts in order to protect cutting-edge climbs in the mid-eighties.
It should be mentioned that Rich Romano continued to climb at the highest levels without ever placing a piton or a bolt. At this point Romano has done hundreds of climbs, almost all of them 5.10 or harder, onsight, ground-up, and protected only with nuts and cams (and in one case, hooks).
The few bolts placed were also accompanied by some chipping and chiseling, and all these anti-traditional practices started a lively and sometimes acrimonious controversey, leading to a remarkable series of climber's meetings in 1986 and 1987 which confirmed the community's commitment to ban rap bolting, piton placement, and other forms of cliff alteration.
In 1988, the Preserve made the community's essentially voluntary moratorium a matter of Preserve policy, apparently settling the issue once and for all. However, ten years later, faced with a proliferation of rappel slings left all over the cliffs by climbers no longer interested in starting at the bottom, arriving at the top, and walking back down, the Preserve decided it was not subject to its own rules and began a bolting program that created a number of fixed belay and rappel anchors in the most heavily used locations.
In spite of the few exceptions, I think it is fair to say that the Gunks remains one of the country's genuinely traditional climbing areas.
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JAK
climber
The Souf
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Sep 23, 2007 - 04:45pm PT
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" Trad is on-sight, ground up (free, aid or mixed)..... Mr. Chicken Skinner!"
Um...pretty much all of North Carolina except Sauratown Bluffs?
I mean, granted, there are a few rap bolted lines at Moore's Wall, Rumbling Bald, and exceedingly small sections of other crags, but if you come to NC with just draws, ya gon' be dis'pointed boy. Lines unprotectable by anything else tend to be hand-bolted on lead after serious run-outs (sounds like someone's famous test piece?!), and the R/X ratings are alive and well.
If you want it really pure, head to Whiteside Mountain, which is not only trad, but harrowing trad with many long unprotectable sections that have the bolt at the *end*. The High Anxiety Headwall may not quite be the B-Y, but it's named that for a a reason:
Photo Credit: Paul Rothfeldt Climber: Bruce Burgess
Come on over to the East Coast for a bit. We gots some good stuff.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 23, 2007 - 05:33pm PT
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How about Ragged Mt. in CT or any place in CT, home of KN.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2007 - 05:41pm PT
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JAK - nice pic.
Encouraging news - I gots to get myself out there!
Thanx, jb
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 23, 2007 - 05:57pm PT
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Steve G wrote:
>I haven't climbed at Paradise Forks for decades but I would be
>delighted to learn that the locals have kept to a slim to no
>additional bolt ethic on the basalt areas. You can toprope
>any section of basalt around so forcing up heavily bolted
>routes would really ugly up the place.
Steve - although the bolted arete (Australians At The Forks, think) was rstored at some point over the last bunch of years, the rest of the Forks hasn't gone bolted yet. There is a movement afoot in Flag where some climbers are lobbying to try to get anchor bolts placed there. The rim area has seen some wear and tear and they claim that bolted anchors will save the trees and the rim from further damage. Personally, I don't think it will do what they think it will, but that's just my opinion. I'd hate to see all those bolts at the Forks.
I believe Granite Mountain is pretty much ground up on everything except maybe the Leo Henson route Blowin' in the Wind (heard there were some extenuating circumstances on that one).
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 23, 2007 - 09:52pm PT
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Steel- Lots of top anchor options worth considering before the usual solution is employed. Installing blackened 1/2" stainless studs that are keyhole hanger compatible would be a sensible middle ground as long as the peculiarity was well advertised and the appropriate hangers for sale back in town. Nuthin' to shoot at neither! Glad to hear the place hasn't been plooked by machines because it is too fine.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 23, 2007 - 10:37pm PT
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Also at the forks was Americans at Arapiles on the prow wall. I think it was rap bolted and subsequently chopped.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Sep 23, 2007 - 11:34pm PT
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Ezra: I recognized the mug of Mr. E right away in the TR. Thanks for posting. I'd not seen it before -
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Sep 23, 2007 - 11:50pm PT
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has anyone here actually climbed the Elbsandstein? After seeing some of Todd G's pics of other eastern european sandstone, might be a rad trip.
that or clip bolts on Kalymnos.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 24, 2007 - 09:49am PT
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Stella, no fixed pins at all at Devil's Lake? I ask becaue, I learned to climb there, back when pounding pins was the norm. Back then you ran itno the odd fixed pin.
Steve, Steel, I swear there is a big ol dead tree in the bottom pf the forks that we used to use as a top rope/rapel anchor (paradise lost? Watusi?)
Just a comment, this is not an endorsemnt of bolts @ the forks ... to which I would be opposed ... not that it matters what I think!
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BlazeOn
Trad climber
Asheville, NC
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Sep 24, 2007 - 10:22am PT
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Yeah...what JAK said...VERY T-Rad here in NC. Rap bolting is generally frowned upon, on-sight, ground up is the local ethic. A strong mind is integral part of NC trad rack.
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Crag
Trad climber
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Sep 24, 2007 - 10:32am PT
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I would agree with the others that places such as Seneca and the Gunks have a very strong Trad ethic. There are bolted climbs at Seneca but they are few by comparison to places like Nelson Rocks (closed but up for sale for a cool $950K), and the New. More importantly the bolted climbs at Seneca are not always 100% all bolts and I'm of the belief that the bolts were placed sans rapping.
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handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
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Sep 24, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
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The Elephant's Perch is trad by law.
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