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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 10, 2007 - 10:04pm PT
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Thanks, Tom. Classy bit of nice detail about a period that became a part of a major inflection point in climbing styles.
Best, Roger
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spectreman
climber
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Sep 10, 2007 - 10:15pm PT
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Excellent story Tom. Thank you for the link.
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bob
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
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Its interesting to me sometimes when I think about some of those older badass routes ( some I've done some I most certainly haven't) that the bolts are sooo bad now that the climbs themselves have become even more badass. To me there's a big difference with gunning it above a rusty old thing and gunning it above even a new 1/4 incher. Are people with me on this one? I'm NOT trying to take away anything from those bold first ascents because they are truly awsome and take unbelieveable determination and skill. Two things many new climbers don't have when it comes to putting it on the line as far as safety goes. I wonder though, if some of the younger crowd aren't going for those routes because of the rusty old things. Maybe they, me(I'm 34), are just lazy and don't want to go through the trouble of changing out those bolts for the go. Even if they do they won't have the same experience as some of the folks that nabbed ascents back when the bolts were still sound. One, they could go for it on lead which means they have to climb the route on sh#t bolts that may very well not hold the big wing, thus forcing them to do the more insane. or Two, they could rap in and replace the bolts, but then they don't get the full OS experience because they see it all before climbing it. And I know my eyes would be open for that crucial hold 30 feet out if I was rapping in to put sound bolts in.
I did Mr Kamps and a route that starts left of Sorcerer's App then crosses it and then comes back to join it after the Sea of Knobs (no idea the name or who did it). Both of these routes had not been replaced, but we were very tense because of the old bolts. Especially when at hanging belays and the leader was out gunning it. I went back and did Mr Kamps post replacement and it was a whole different experience. Had pucker, but not like the first time.
Just some thoughts on the subject of older, superbad, inspirational routes that should get done more often and probably get done more than I think. Believe it or not there are some young, soft spoken climbers out there who do the raddist of rad whether its well protected or not and they only talk about it with their closest friends
Bob J.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 10, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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Pretty good thread, now multigenerational, prompted by good questions.
Kurt kicks it off, then Tom does the slam dunk with the Ascent article.
I read that article when the Ascent came out; it was mythic! And before I knew it, I matured just enough and I was out there, renting a room from Vern & Margaret, rolling up to the Meadows and standing up on those edges no thicker than a pencil lead...
(okay, never actually did the Piece de Resistance, as word had it some holds had busted and it was quite a bit harder...)
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 11, 2007 - 10:45am PT
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some great dialog and history here! Tom Higgins, Bob Kamps, Vern, Claude, Don Ried, Bachar and many others have always been the climbers that i admired and looked up to all those years ago...
I always felt it was my DUTY to follow in their footsteps and climb in the style that creates so much doubt and adventure in climbing. when repeating their routes or putting up my own i was conscience of the style that makes the route. Of the many thousands of routes i have climbed over the years, the ones that still stick in my memory banks are my times in the meadows and valley in the 1980's...
BVB brings up a good point. Why do these routes not see the traffic they once did?
Is it bad bolts?
I think partly yes, but more importantly, that style of climbing (slabs) has fallen out of vogue with todays climbers, and fear/doubt is not part of most climbers agenda.
I remember a time when you had to wait in line for Mr Kamps or some of the other hard core classics above 5.10....
If new bolts will bring back adventure climbing in the meadows then i am all for it... but i do want to reiterate my point that routes need to be preserved as is with # of bolts, because soon this will be all the adventure that is left in climbing if you seek it. There is plenty of variety in climbing today, so if it's sport climbing you want, then maybe the meadows is not the place for you...call me as#@&%e, elitist or any thing else you like, but the sport is becoming too mainstream and the new climbers have no clue what HISTORY and Adventure comes with todays climbing.....
I was scared the day i did Mr. Kamps and Piece de Resistance and i hope to be scared the day i get to do them again.. the thought of not succeeding before a climb is what drove me the hardest, and with sport climbing i always knew i would succeed, and that killed a little part of climbing. for me that is miss when i climb most routes today....now if i wanted to be scared i go to SENECA!
Hats' off to the OLD School....
KS
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bob
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2007 - 11:39am PT
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HERE HERE!!!!! Lets get those routes and the mindset going again!
Bob J.
PS Has BVB even posted on here?
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Sep 11, 2007 - 11:51am PT
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Roger writes:
"In 1973, Tom and Bob and Mike Ivrin climbed 'Fairest of All.' I remember that Tom was very proud of that route--it shows in the name. "
Whats the deal on Fairest of All? (not that I can climb it) Just curious, in a sort of self destructive way. Anyone got stories about going up it?
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bob
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2007 - 12:45pm PT
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spyork, I did it a few years back with a buddy of mine to "warm up" for a summer in Tuolumne. Warm was a bit of a long shot. I remember second pitch being quite scary as I did a big step left to another crack system. Just before I did so I noticed that ther was a bolt hole with no bolt. Old rusty thing. I would have loved even a rusty whole bolt there for that traverse because I was a bit above a blue alien. They said 5.9, but whew that felt harder than that. Then up higher on the pitch to get to the U-shaped bowl, one has to do the 10c crux up and out from a ledge just to get to the first bolt. That was scary and had the up and down, up and down until figured out thing going for me at least. I know a few good climbers who have skipped that just went left up the face.
All in all its a really fun route with some querky spice. Great face climbing, great corners, traverses fun fun fun.
Bob J.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Sep 11, 2007 - 12:59pm PT
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re: Fairest of All
Higgins and Kamps had climbed to the roofs and retreated a few
years before the first complete ascent, thus the first several
pitches were already bolted.
On the 1st pitch, Mike Irwin left the crack system and found
himself well below the 1st bolt, with scary face climbing
required. Everybody I've talked to about the climb had a similar
experience.
However, my partner, bobh, found the bolt right in front of his
face when he left the crack and stepped around onto the face.
When I followed, the bolt was at my feet when I stepped around.
So stay in the first crack as long as you can. It can make a big
difference to your mental state for the rest of the climb.
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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Sep 11, 2007 - 01:27pm PT
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I did FoA in 1974 with Steve Peterson. We were told it might not have had a second ascent yet. The lower pitches did not impress us with their difficulty, but route finding was a challenge with only a narrative description. Higher up route finding is easy, but like the first ascent party, we were irritated by the long detour right. Impatient youth. I was surprised at how physical those detour pitches were.
I drew the crux pitch near the end. I think Higgins had called it .9 or easy .10 face, well protected. I'd climbed several of his routes at Tahquitz and expected it to be at least a letter grade harder. From a good edge, I touched a creaking flake and decided to use it---gingerly. I got the moves first try, and didn't break anything. I thought it to be about .10b.
Steve came up to the spot before the business and paused to survey the possibilities. He touched the creaking flake and judging it to be junk, brushed it away with a quick flick of the wrist. I said something like, "I used that. It just went from .10- to .10 plus." And so it is today.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Sep 11, 2007 - 06:02pm PT
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Fairest of All: Recall
Indeed, there was something very knifing yet essential to me about the scare and beauty of a big new Fairview route. I craved the feeling, or did I? I remember the restless stomach and self talk to manage it: "Could we do it? It looks so grim and shady in the morning. Holds not looking like holds. Then the sun squirts in your eye ... can't see where to go ... Stop it. Hell, if we don't make it, we just rap off ... but what about getting too far out? And no place to drill? Shut up. Shut up!"
The first ascent of Fairest of All brought home all these fears. As I wrote in the AAC Journal, 1974:
"We have slept on and off the previous night in anticipation of the ascent. I never have butterflies, only a ping pong ball lodged in my solar plexus."
Yes to poster discussion, I do recall some skin crawl complexity on the lower pitches where it seemed easier the first time over them than the second. Kamps and I had done the first few pitches before, but had stopped at the roofs about midway. The second time was with Mike Irwin for the complete FA. I recall thinking, where are we? As I wrote back then,
"The next lead is so devious I forget what to do."
(Now I know it's all part of wooing what that good witchy dome.)
But a much greater angst was in store as Mike and I began the traverse under the big roof with fading light. It began where poster Bob describes a nasty move above a ledge which, in a rush (and up, down, up, down just as he describes), I nearly did with no bolt at all, but then checked my stupidity, got one in, turned the corner and sank to see the hoped for easy pitch to the U shaped bowl looked hard. It turned into a dance between a dihedral and the face to the right of it, working back and forth in deepening dusk trying to make ground without stopping to drill, 5.8, 5.9, 40, 50, 60 feet out ... then, drilling one in supersonics, my last, as somehow the drill unclips, drops, sparks and tingles all the way to the ground! Mad as hell, I just go, go to the bowl.
In moonless darkness, Mike and I decided to stop the nonsense and spent the cold night in the bowl. We did so bunched together under ropes as I had brought no more than a light turtle neck and he the same. Next day, all was bliss in the sharp morning light on top, with that strange mix of barely getting by and having created a path on uncaring stone, but ours, quietly humming inside us.
Later, I told Vern Clevenger I had gone a bit nuts on the pitch to the bowl and it could use a couple more bolts. I think he fixed it. But the bewildering lower pitches, the move off the ledge, all of it is there as it was for those wishing to retrace the adventure, speculate on the madness, feel the quandary, even a bit of the stupidity. And isn't that the essential thing: to get not just the rock passing underfoot, but the choreography, the lives of those going first, and the feel of the time?
For those of that mind, the complete tale of our long ago adventure is here:
http://www.tomhiggins.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=20&limit=1&limitstart=0
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 11, 2007 - 06:10pm PT
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Jeeze Tom, you're not supposed to drop the drill.
Climbing is serious, forcryingoutloud.
He, he.
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clustiere
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Sep 11, 2007 - 07:45pm PT
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Jensen???
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Sep 11, 2007 - 07:58pm PT
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I was wondering...
The bolts on 'Fairest of all' are they original?
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Sep 11, 2007 - 08:04pm PT
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Wow Thanks Tom for the bumbly honesty.
I love it when my heroes are real, and openly honest.
As for the dropped drill, when I used to build ski lifts we called that a "dropalectic seizure".
Candor has no boundaries.
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bob
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2007 - 08:08pm PT
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Clustiere Yup, Jensen
Am I supposed to say who I am? Is that the ??????
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 11, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
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great thread
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Sep 20, 2007 - 07:02pm PT
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Status of bolts on FOA:
spyork asked about the status of bolt replacement on Fairest of All. I checked with Greg of ASCA (very responsible bolt replacers, in my view, and worthy of $$ support to keep all as safe as possible). He says:
"I don't know the full status of the bolts on Fairest of All, but I know that some of them have been replaced, and some are still original (as of last year at least). To my knowledge, ASCA gear hasn't been used for replacement, but I don't always hear back on exactly what's been replaced."
So, if you go, keep in mind. I have no issue with replacement of old bolts on this route (or any of my FAs). Just do a good job, keep Greg posted (greg@safeclimbing.org)and please don't add additional bolts so the old feel of our struggle (as per tale above) is still there.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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clustiere
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Sep 20, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
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No you need not reveal more. I know you form the biscut. Glad to see your alive and well. You talk to Mr. Richards these days. He still dating Shotanke kinker dogle. Well have fun with the horror fest climbing should you need a partner I just moved to the Bay so drop a line in my email.
Later
Ryan
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 20, 2007 - 07:51pm PT
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On the Fairview rebolting scene, just heard from Seth Green that he recently replaced the remaining 1/4" bolts at the first two anchors on Sorcerer's Apprentice.
Guess while I'm at it I'll list what else I know has been replaced this season - a very slow season since Roger Brown has been down in the Valley!
Friends in High Places - replaced anchor
Just Say No - replaced pitch 1 anchor (bad bolts above)
Little Sheba - replaced one bolt and installed chains at pitch 1 anchor
Lord Caffeine anchor - replaced one 1/4", removed 2nd (already had one good 3/8")
Lord of the Overhigh - replaced pitch 1 anchor (bad bolts above)
Sunshine - replaced first pro bolt on pitch 1 left variation (original var), removed doubled pro bolt (which was actually a good 3/8" bolt, but it stuck out a bit and was slightly rusted - it was one of the Metolius bolts that look like glue-ins that they stopped making because the biner can unclip glue-in style). Anchor above is poor, and pro bolts on the 5.10 variation pitch 2 are all bad. Pitch 2 anchor is good according to Mike Waugh (Drew must have replaced a few years ago, never got the exact details on what he replaced)
Let me know if I missed anything! Greg
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