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thinksforhimself
climber
fresno, ca
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Aug 30, 2007 - 04:28pm PT
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I never cease to be amazed by the bigotry in the U.S.
yeah, if only we could develop the tolerance and understanding of Mexico or Iran.
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Aug 30, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
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Right. Why be so closed minded to communicable disease ?
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thinksforhimself
climber
fresno, ca
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Aug 30, 2007 - 04:49pm PT
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"yeah, if only we could develop the tolerance and understanding of Mexico or Iran."
They are countries. Don't get outside Arkansas much, huh?
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G_Gnome
Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
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Aug 30, 2007 - 04:52pm PT
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You guys are worried about diseases from Mexicans? Where the hell were you 10 years ago when it might have mattered. It's a done deal now and we don't seem any worse for the wear, health wise.
Besides, with the coming crash of the American way of life you aren't really going to be concerned about either immigration or the diseases they might carry. You will be wanting food and shelter though. And those IRAs, they will be but a faint memory, sucked into the vast pit of the money managers' pockets.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2007 - 04:58pm PT
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I was wondering how long it take for someone to call me a bigot because they have no valid argument. Never surprises me.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2007 - 05:01pm PT
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Have you read the thread, A.C.? Ricardo did.
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thinksforhimself
climber
fresno, ca
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Aug 30, 2007 - 05:40pm PT
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I did not particiate. It wasn't me.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Aug 30, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
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Those that support illegal immigration are the real bigots here. The present policy preferentially allows Hispanics, esp Mexicans to dominate immigration. All peoples of the Earth deserve a fair and equal chance to immigrate into the US. 100s of millions of very worthy people in China and India would love to come here, and to work for even less than Mexicans at jobs that even Mexicans wouldn't do.
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 30, 2007 - 06:18pm PT
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here is what i read in that link:
At present, only about two dozen new cases of leprosy are found in US-born patients each year, a number that has not changed for decades, said Steve Pfeifer, head of statistics and epidemiology at the National Hansen’s Disease Program.
the rest is speculation and nothing more, "some researchers suggest...", please...
btw- as global population increases, outbreaks of all sorts of nasty things will also increase, and it won't be the poor peoples' fault that poor people are more likely to be victimized by these outbreaks, it will be the rich peoples' fault that they failed to act to protect the poor people from the outbreaks.
get over your white self, once and for all!
friggin racists pretending to be nationalists, even fooling their peers and themselves, it seriously makes any open minded observer of history sick to see sh#t like this happening in 'amerika'.
take a f*#king trip to the statue of liberty and read what it says there, then get your own DNA checked and see if you are a native american or not.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2007 - 06:34pm PT
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Matt, so I'm a racist now? Perfect way to handle a discussion. Make inflammatory accusations.
Do you think that gimme your sick, tired, and poor was literal? By that logic, this would be a country of diseased, lazy, bums. And it wasn't intended to permit illegal immigration, it was meant for controlled, health screened immigration. Remember Ellis Island?
I point that your disavowing of leprosy is incorrect and all you can say is we don't have enough leprosy yet? How many cases would you want before action was taken?
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 30, 2007 - 06:42pm PT
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Do you think that gimme your sick, tired, and poor was literal?
yes
do you also want to ask me if i think most americans are fat and lazy, arrogant, increasingly absent of our founding fathers' work ethic, and in general affraid that their precious country is becoming less and less caucasian?
do you also want to ask me if i think the last point is what really drives the complaining about illegal immigration?
and does that last question of mine serve to answer your previous question, the one about what i really think of you, and your attitudes?
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Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
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Aug 30, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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There are lots of diseases that you can't immunize against - should we isolate all US nationals returning from areas where such diseases are present? And what about US citizens resident within the country, who are infected or exposed? If you're really worried about the spread of disease, you'd have to advocate locking them up and treating them too, and not just foreigners.
Nobody traveling to the Southwest would be allowed back into New York, just incase they had a hantavirus infection..... anyone within 10 miles of Bellvue Mens Shelter in NYC would be declared a health emergency......
OK, I'm exaggerating here, but I'd like to see some kind of serious cost-benefit analysis before we start locking up them dangerous foreigners......remember, I am one!
Foreign graduate student, used to work with drug-resistant pathogenic bacteria, comes from a country whose name starts with an "I"........maybe thats why I get special screening every time I try to get on a plane!
Irish
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Xela
climber
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Aug 30, 2007 - 07:32pm PT
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Nefarius wrote:
"Ummm.... well, for one, you have to get vaccinated before going to areas known to have a high concentration of something. For instance, before going to Thailand, I had to have all kinds of vaccinations. The critical one being TB. TB is rampant in Southeast Asia."
Vaccinations are for your protection, they generally do nothing if you are already infected.
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immanti
climber
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Aug 30, 2007 - 10:09pm PT
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It's a pretty good poem, imo, that was chosen as the winner after a public contest in 1883. Here's the whole thing:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
This one is also interesting:
"The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Many circumstances hath, and will arise, which are not local, but universal, and through which the principles of all Lovers of Mankind are affected, and in the Event of which, their Affections are interested. The laying a Country desolate with Fire and Sword, declaring War against the natural rights of all Mankind, and extirparting the Defenders thereof from the Face of the Earth, is the Concern of every Man to whom Nature hath given the Power of feeling; of which Class, regardless of Party Censure, is the
AUTHOR
...
O ye that love mankind! Ye that dare oppose, not only the tyranny, but the tyrant, stand forth! Every spot of the old world is over-run with oppression. Freedom hath been hunted round the globe. Asia, and Africa, have long expelled her. – Europe regards her like a stranger, and England hath given her warning to depart. O! Receive the fugitive, and prepare in time an asylum for mankind."
From “Common Sense”
By Thomas Paine
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 30, 2007 - 10:57pm PT
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Well, let's see. If I think about epidemics harming this country, and epidemics harming people around the world, I think of a couple of things.
1. Obesity - kills more people than any communicable disease in the US. Costs are far higher. Guess we should ban fat people. Or maybe any company that makes unhealthy food.
2. Tobacco - US tobacco companies have much better sales abroad than in the US these days. If any one is exporting death, it's us.
And calling slaughter of native americans "inadvertent" is pretty offensive. Are you going to deny that tens of thousands were killed or forced to relocate off their lands so your ancestors and mine could take the land? Perhaps you'd like to deny the Holocaust as well? Just a few Jews that were inadvertently killed?
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Aug 30, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
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If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger...... Get over it.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 31, 2007 - 01:01am PT
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bluering ..
you are a bigot ..
.. what makes you think that having mexican trucks coming through the border will bring more disease into the U.S.?
.. assuming that all illegal immigrants bring disease is also bigotry ..
.. consider that there is no way to stop illegal immigration, and lots of ways to help decrease it, such as attacking the reasons why these people want to come to the U.S. (better jobs, and a chance at a better life) ..
.. most of the U.S. population has bought the story from politicians that illegal immigrants are a source of many of our problems .. -- too bad .. its an easy way to pass the buck, and not take responsibilty for the state of the union.
bluering .. if there is something about your way of life that you dont like, and are bitter over .. you have nobody other than yourself to blame .. get some help so that you can have a better life and be less hateful towards other people..
.. i know that this is america, and everyone is free to have their opinion .. -- but its just damm sad to see soo many folks be so close minded. -- what a waste of freedom.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2007 - 11:56am PT
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".. assuming that all illegal immigrants bring disease is also bigotry .. "
For starters I never said that. I said that illegal immigration bypasses our controlled system of immigration that screens for certain communicable diseases.
And yes, there are many reasons why illegal immigration is a very bad idea and damaging in many ways. There's only one benefit to it, cheap labor for greedy employers.
How can I be a bigot if I support ANYBODY coming here legally? Maybe you're the bigot who only sees things in terms of race, and not in the actions of a person.
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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Aug 31, 2007 - 01:28pm PT
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Bluering: For the record, I don't think you're a bigot. Just an alarmist.
As for my work, in most cases I defend legal immigrants in removal proceedings, and help people immigrate legally. I have a few cases involving undocumented (illegal) immigrants, but they almost never have any relief under the law, and they are deported. It usually doesn't break my heart to see them go except when they have no criminal record, have been here for 10 or 20 years paying taxes, and have a spouse and kids. I'd like to see Congress give back a little more discretion to the judges in cases like those.
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 31, 2007 - 01:45pm PT
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it's not a requirement of anyone's bigotry to be aware that one is biased in any way
if someone didn't think they were a very attractive person, but most everyone else thought they were attractive, which would be more relevant?
all immigration is not equal or comparable, and all immigrants do not have an equal opportunity to travel to the US, because some immigrants would have to cross oceans or other obstacles. there is a significant difference in terms of maintaining contact and involvement with a family back home or abroad, and the valuable support network that both the immigrant and the family can play for each other. an immigrant who does somehow cross a major geographical obstacle more frequently cuts all family ties and therefore lacks that support network, so the idea that illegal immigrants are somehow screwing legal immigrants is largely a construction of the right wing and a fabrication that attempts to put a 'fair and balanced' flavor on their disinterest in having more minorities in this country. you simply cannot compare a mexian or central american who comes here to pick crops or work construction with an asian who comes on a tech worker visa or anyone here to study in a university, and their relative #'s do not impact one another from a policy standpoint (except in the mind of someone who is distressed by all the non-white skin in their once comfortable all american town!)
if you really think you can stand there and contend that what you want is less hispanics and more africans or laotians, then you deserve nothing but dissmissive laughter and quiet contempt from the rest of us.
the simple fact is that you listen to these 'talking points' and involuntarily regurgitate them, without really considering the realities of peoples lives.
if you want less abortions, making them illegal will not get you there, but making it easier for people not to pregnant when they do not have the emotional or financial capacity to be a parent, that will give your fewer abortions.
if you want less illegal immigration, building walls or advocating for the hating of brown people will not get you there, but reaching out and helping the countries that people come here from to broadly improve their economies and their overall standards of living will.
why do they never talk about that on fauxnews?
too busy spreading the oh-so-valid fear of a massive leprosy outbreak, perhaps...
edit- why don't so-called conservatives want "the free market" to determine the level of immigration? it's good enough for health care, good enough for environmemtal standards, good enough for potentially predatory or at least manipulative morgatge lending practices, good enough for mine safety standards, good enough for CAFE standards, good enough for our childrens' education, but not good enough for the one thing that is so clearly a function of economic opportunity?
...but i'm sure that's not because they have a distaste for brown people, what do you think they are, racist? that's offensive and ridiculous! how dare you say that!
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