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WBraun
climber
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Jul 12, 2007 - 12:22am PT
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Nope it was Porter.
Years before that photo from the "Sea of Dreams"
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jul 12, 2007 - 01:52am PT
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rgold, I hope you didn't take my post as contradicting your post. I think we use some different terminology, which led to some miscommunication.
Re: the number of clove hitches, by "anchor" I meant the whole anchor setup (cams/slings, etc), not each individual piece of protection. So for an anchor setup with two pieces of protection (i.e. a two point anchor) you'd need to tie two clove hitches total with an equalette. Versus a sling pretied as a slidingX where you'd just clip into two loops, so it's slightly faster.
For a 4 point anchor setup the equalette is a very good/quick method to use.
The sling pretied as shown in my picture will accomodate 2 anchors in a horizontal crack (anchor points at the same height) however you'd be right up against the limiter knot and couldn't move off axis in that direction. It would also accomodate up to 18" difference in the height among the 2 anchor points (as in a vertical crack).
I don't think of the photo I posted as a variation of the Largo equalette, but I must confess I haven't read his new book. I thought an "equalette" would; be made out of long (e.g. 10 foot) cord or webbing instead of a 48" sling, use 2 biners at the powerpoint on seperate strands instead of a slidingX configuration, and have clove hitches on each individual anchor point. The picture I posted is something we've all used for many years, and I've always thought of and refered to it as a slidingX with limiter knots, while the term equalette has only been around for less than 2 years.
I hadn't heard about the tests on 3 point cordelettes by Attaway. It's nice to hear that cordelettes can actually distribute the load fairly well (i.e. 1 piece getting 1/2 the load), since so many people will continue to use cordelettes.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 09:39am PT
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The Fet: What you're missing is that the the crossed sling with limiter knots is the two-point equalette (which, I think they call the duo-glide). The only real difference is that in the duo-glide they've optimized the carabiner setup.
So yes, if you use two large anodized biners, and don't cross twist one of the strands between the limiter knots, your equalization will be exactly the same.
GO
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jul 12, 2007 - 10:23am PT
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 12, 2007 - 11:08am PT
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OMFG, a smiley!
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 11:25am PT
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Sorry, sorry! I'll stop! Step back off that ledge, wootles!
GO
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jul 12, 2007 - 11:43am PT
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this is a good(?) one too
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 12:14pm PT
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I'm just curious when the last time is that someone here heard of a gear anchor failure that makes this such a big deal and the cordalette obsolete? I'm open to the "new" method, for sure. Just playing Devil's advocate here though, as I think people get their panties into a wad, frequently, while splitting hairs.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 12, 2007 - 12:19pm PT
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argh. I'm getting sucked in.
The book does not suggest that the cordelette is obsolete. The book discusses the strengths and weaknesses of several configurations including the cordelette based on testing.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 12:44pm PT
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Well, for those who aren't perusing the book, nor own it and are simply going with the discussion on this thread, I think the opening post which reads, "browsing through reviews of Long's revised Climbing Anchors monograph, one of the blurbs said, essentially, that the cordelette is now passe, made obsolete by the ... equalette" the post, as well as the word "obsolete" fit well into the discussion.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 12, 2007 - 01:03pm PT
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Nefarius: Perhaps my post gave off an unintended tone. That was not my intention.
My interpretation of the material is simply this:
1. nothing takes the place of bomber gear placement from which to work. If one sets crappy pieces, then no configuration will negate that.
2. The cordelette doesn't do what it was always thought to do in most configurations - that is, equalize. When the arms are of different lengths, it fails to equalize. Tests show it is more like an anchor one a single piece with back ups.
3. The equalette equalizes far better.
The book shows the strengths and weaknesses of a variety of configurations with a variety of material and biners. Seeing how each tested enables more informed choices in terms of anchors. At least it does for me.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jul 12, 2007 - 02:11pm PT
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GO, in my post above I did respond that I know understand they're calling a slidingX with limiter knots an equalette (or duo-glide). I was confused because they are renaming something that's been around for 20 plus years, but I guess equalette or duo-glide has a better ring to it than slidingX with limiter knots.
So in the book a design with limiter knots that is clove hitched to each piece of pro is an equalette, and a design with limiter knots but no clove hitches is a duo-glide? If so, that makes sense and it's a good naming convention.
I am often going to respond when I think I see opinions stated as facts. e.g. "in the duo-glide they've optimized the carabiner setup." To me two biners at the powerpoint is not 'optimized'. It's a pain to have to clip your other biners (i.e. my and my partners direct connections to the anchor and a belay re-direct biner) through two biners at the powerpoint. I'd rather use one biner and tie the sling so that the strand that has a cross twist in it has a little slack in it, then it won't bind and will equalize just as well, without having to deal with clipping through 2 biners.
Pull on this smiley...
Edit: to be clear, that smiley is a climbing hold.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 02:18pm PT
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Sorry, Crimpie! I think maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the ledge this morning. Wasn't intentionally snappy!
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 12, 2007 - 02:30pm PT
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No problema. *hug* :)
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jul 12, 2007 - 02:54pm PT
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Isn't this what is being called the "duo-glide"?
There is no sliding X involved.
edit: now is the appropriate time for this -
double edit: I see below from the Fet that this thing is called the "quad".
I have a headache.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:00pm PT
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I'm not sure I wanna use anything in my anchor when part of it's name is "glide"...
Thanks, Crimpie! I'm all better now, for sure!
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:05pm PT
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Wootles, isn't that the quad?
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:19pm PT
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OMG Fet you're right!
I've been trying to find that emoticon too.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Jul 12, 2007 - 03:37pm PT
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The Fet: Ah, I hadn't seen that in your earlier post.
Also, I meant optimized solely in terms of equalization. No guarantees are given that it's actually the most *useful* for any given situation.
See Wootles, I'm just clarifying what I said before. I'm not introducing anything about the Mooseommmpphhh. MMMmmmm! Grd mmm rrrfff mmmmrrr! Ouch! Get this crazy lunatic off me! Dontcha know - it stings when I have to rip that duct tape off! Do that again and I'm going to bring RG in with a new anchor made up of 25 pieces of climbing rope!
GO
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Jul 12, 2007 - 04:53pm PT
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What? No discussion on the Idealette? It is ideal for all situations. Wootles - wanna start?
edit: Know what Nefarius? I feel all better too. :)
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