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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Before they had all of the fancy checks for drive through traffic, I an acquaintence from Vancouver who would occasionally sneak across the border since she wasn't allowed to fly due to a pot violation. This was around 1997.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"It's not just the US stopping Canadians, the Canadians have embraced more 'Tit or tat' laws keeping US citizens out, for old crimes, or simple admission of old lawbreaking. Theoretically George Bush wouldn't be allow to drive into Canada without an expensive waiver process."
Darn! All that fuss, just to keep little George out. We knew someone would notice sooner or later.
The current U.S. administration insists on "continental security" for both people and goods. They've in effect said that Canada has to meet their standard, or that we'll be held to an even higher standard, as though we were "real" foreigners. (The Canada-U.S. border is relatively easy to cross, especially by land, compared to many borders outside the E.U.) We haven't embraced the new U.S. policies, particularly as some of them seem ineffective and unenforceable, and its doubtful whether they're worth the trouble. It would be more accurate to say we've been bullied into them.
One trivial irritant in Canada-U.S. relations is of course our relatively sane drug laws. The police have a different view of this than do the public, the courts, and parliament. But by turning away would-be visitors for long ago trivial offences, the border people "prove" they're doing their job, and keeping us safe.
Don't forget a lot of this is about keeping the public insecure, if not paranoid. If the public always believes it is threatened, that's to the advantage of big government authoritarians, such as the present U.S. administration.
The real threats - overpopulation, economic and environmental refugees, economic disparities, desperate people, etc. - can't be easily solved, if at all. Beefing up border security may well increase safety, though perhaps not as much as claimed, and there may be more effective investments. But it lets the government say it's doing something, and appear to be doing something, keeps the public on its toes, and occasionally will catch something.
The effectiveness of the U.S. air safety program can be gauged by the fact that one country retains the right of secondary inspections at U.S. airports. One that has genuine experience in ongoing threats. That country is Israel. El Al doesn't believe U.S. homeland security does a very good job, by their standards. Though the Israelis also have exceedingly good lobbyists, are resourceful, and have considerable domestic and political allegiance. Just ask DaftRat.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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When the authorities have no idea why attacks have occured and they have no idea how to prevent further attacks, they grasp at anything that seems dramatic and onerous enough to equal the imagined perils in their own minds.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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our country is now exactly the same as pre-war Germany, with the nazi mentality and fear based politics, imagined or manufactured enemies, huge bureacracies deciding people's lives, hate in all its forms, idiotic and uneducated petty officers everywhere, a strangled media, a complacent, over fed population, we have not seen the worst of this yet.
Democracy: use it or lose it.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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There you have it: We are now exactly the same as Nazi Germany.
hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
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Buddy
Mountain climber
Fairbanks, AK
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Try reading or watching anything by Greg Palast. That'll open those ol' stoned, lethargic eyes. Enjoy the sushi!
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Well, it's late and I'm not going to bother to read all that. I'll just say that I don't believe our history over the last 40 years will produce the same result as that of the Germans for the 40 year period preceeding ww2.
But what do I know? I admit I can't produce a number of links from fringe news sources.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Great posts, AC. Those who don't think it can happen here should reflect on how much of it (the erosion of freedoms and rights) has already happened here.
Keep up the good work, my man!
-JelloOnTheAlert
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2007 - 02:28am PT
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I think everybody should read Crowley's paste above. It's stunning similar to what we're experiencing. If you can't think about it, read about it, or do anything about it, but rather just have faith that things will be fine, then you're the same as the average German during the rise of Hilter. Maybe we'll get lucky, maybe we won't. All empires fall, it's only a matter of time, so it's best to be watchful
peace
karl
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Degaine
climber
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Thanks for posting that AC. Agree with Karl, a must read.
The situation in pre WWII Germany and the US now is like the anecdote of frogs and boiling water:
-Throw a frog into a pot of boiling water and it will jump right out.
-Put a frog in a pot of cold water and slowly heat the water to a boil and it will just sit there and die. During the slow increase in temperature it makes small adjustments to the increasingly hot water and never senses that it's in danger.
If our freedoms and liberties were taken away from one day to the next my guess is that the majority of Americans would react, but the situation has been going downhill oh so slowly so that with each slight diminishing of our freedoms people make small adjustments, not seeing the danger ahead.
Combine that with the fact that people prefer the warm blanket of security to quell their fears of a supposed "threat" to the fresh air of freedom, and, well, you do the math.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Ok, I read both of Crowley's posts up there. Truthfully, I thought the first one was laughable. Any time one cries 'fascism!!' we are inevitably pointed to Coulter, MacKinnon, etc. Ok, you've identified a couple a-holes with extreme views, terrific.
The hitler timeline was actually pretty interesting, but I'd still say that the background and context are different, that the Sept 11 attack (or inside job, depending on who you believe) is not analogous to what happened in '33 Germany.
I'm not saying we aren't facing some serious issues as a country. I am saying I don't think that we are quite the fascist state that some of you seem to think we are? 1930's Germany? Give me a break.
I could go on, and attempt to address those articles in greater detail, but it would be a waste of time. First, I'm not a journalist by profession, I actually have stuff to do here!
Second, my personal thoughts, observations and opinions will likely only be met with more news links.
Hope you guys have a good sunday!
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Can you explain what that means without posting a link? Or answering with a question?
EDIT: D'oh! Thwarted by a Crowley back-edit.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Good one. I see you have advanced from the answer every question with a question and have moved on to the Repeater.
Meow!
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Great posts Crowley, if the rest of you with the blinders on would like to actually do a little political and historical research you will see very strong and numerous correlations between USA political tactics today and those of pre war German fascism. Just take a look at the loss of your own civil rights, privacy, and the state of the media to determine how democracy has been erroded. The "Patriot" Act and "Homeland Security" is the first place to look. Complacency, fear, and dis-education is the goal of a tyranical government because without those things it cannot continue.
my really dear LEB, it's not that fascism COULD happen here again, it's that it IS happening again almost by formula.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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dear LEB, looks like a duck , flies like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. it's not a camel.
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Buddy
Mountain climber
Fairbanks, AK
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Not so funny. Some people don't mind admitting they embrace the Third Reich.
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