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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Alaska Beyotch!
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Aug 30, 2004 - 02:55pm PT
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I don't know that he's listed in the Durango phonebook. My suggestion would be to call the dudes at Backcountry Experience (800)648-8519, they probably know how to get in touch.
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Southern Man
climber
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Aug 30, 2004 - 05:01pm PT
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Hey Jody:
Good to have you back, if only for one post. What are your thoughts on the "Abuse of Climber by Yosemite Law Enforcement Ranger"?
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DIMITRIBARTON
climber
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Aug 30, 2004 - 05:38pm PT
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JODY WROTE IN THE THREAD "CHOPPING" THAT AFTER HE CHOPPED BOLTS AT HIS LOCAL CRAG HE FELT SOME SORT OF POWER OVER HOW PEOPLE CLIMB. IF YOU WE JUST KIDDING, OH WELL! MABYE YOU SHOULD TAKE BACK YOUR LAME STATEMENT. OH ABOUT BAD LSD AND CALLING ME A MORON, IS THAT ALL YOU GOT? CHUMP!!! look back at your post May 16 2003
GROW UP JODY.... MORON, IDIOT.. OH TUFF STUFF ASSHOLE.
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DIMITRIBARTON
climber
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Aug 30, 2004 - 07:06pm PT
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Notified ... not so obvious to me. I don't think bolt chopping deserves such sarcasm. I should get used it it. The "chop away" I took as serious even after reading ALL of your posts. Thanks for the clarified statement and the insults. Does it matter? What matters is that there are not bolt chopping wars going on and when its just a joke I take it too personally. I get too hot with this stuff also so I am sorry as well. I do have a bad rep for this, I take it way too serious. And its good too see I was wrong about you, sorry.
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DIMITRIBARTON
climber
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Aug 30, 2004 - 07:29pm PT
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I apologize again and sorry for the distraction from the more important issue at hand.
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Ben Rumsen
Social climber
Neatherworld, USA
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Aug 30, 2004 - 07:34pm PT
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The issue of what was done to the WEML goes beyond chopping - that route was both vandalized and sabotaged to hurt somebody. And By God ( hey- it's just an expression - get over it ) somebody ought to get hurt!!
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 30, 2004 - 07:40pm PT
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Fly'n Brian
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas
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Aug 31, 2004 - 02:43am PT
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Howdy folks, this is my first climbing forum posting, and what an excellent thread! I appreciate and enjoy all the support and feedback on the chopping topic.
Here's the bottom line. I am not a chopper and am not pro chopping. I am pro whatever. I want people to climb whatever they want however they want. Especially if they maintain a low key attitude. Pushing my own limits is what I'm into not pushing anyone else's.
I was really pissed when I found the chopped rivets, bolts, etc. as I climbed WEML. Especially because I flew to Fresno the night before and flew home the next day and I admit I really wanted a record time on WEML.
Anyway, Hans and I replaced 6 rivets on the route and pendulumed to more accepted routes to get through the other chopped areas when my rivet stash ran out we improvised and did have an excellent adventure (in hindsight).
I called Jim Beyer today to find out exactly what the deal was. He told me straight out he was the guy that "chopped that shit". He said WEML should have never gone up in the first place. He said he did not glue any rivets on to make 'em look good so not sure the deal there.
Not many climbers would have made it past the 1st pitch so I don't think Beyer was trying to hurt anyone, he just thinks climbers are lacking adventurous spirit and technically difficult ability and want to clip up the big stone.
I disagree with him on some things and agree with him in others. I do not condone his acts. I do like his crass, rogue attitude. It does offset the extreme other side. So we had a fun little conversation and he apologized that I had the experience that I had.
That's about it. Thanks for reading!
"Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law"
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 31, 2004 - 05:53am PT
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"I called Jim Beyer today to find out exactly what the deal was. He told me straight out he was the guy that "chopped that shit". He said WEML should have never gone up in the first place."
And here I thought Royal and Don took care of that thirty-four years ago.
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tyrone
Trad climber
california
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Aug 31, 2004 - 06:35am PT
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i don't like the idea of bolt chopping unless they're placed six inches to the left of a bomber crack....seven inchs or more is fair game...j/k, but regardless of where you stand on the issue wouldn't it at the very least be a moral obligation to remove the bolts and hangers from the rock rather than smashing them as shone in the picture above?? if he really gave a damn about "improving" the route then he'd of done this. instead, i think he must've done it to piss a bunch of people off and say that he's a better climber. i guess he thinks he's hot as snot on a silver platter, but he's really just boogers on a paper plate.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Aug 31, 2004 - 09:46am PT
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re: He said WEML should have never gone up in the first place
Wow, what as as#@&%e. If WH was around I'd love to hear his response.
RR goes up there 30 years ago and realizes you can't dictate your style on everyone and the route is valid so he stops chopping. But this nobody bozo thinks he knows all and takes it on himself to sabotage gear. WTF?
Yet again I'm amazed how people can be so deluded they can totally distort reality to fit their own self-righteous views and in their minds justify unjust actions.
Evil done in the name of good is still evil. In fact it's worse because it's hypocritical.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 31, 2004 - 10:10am PT
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Chopping bolts on WOEML is so passé...
One wonders why Jim didn't go up Highway To Hell and fill in all the bat holes.
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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Aug 31, 2004 - 10:39am PT
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Smashing hangers is not chopping,
it is downright vandalism, so we should
be calling it what it is. In my book, an
enhanced hooking hole is just 1/4 of
a bolt or rivet, so when you add up all
the chipping Jim Beyer has done you
end up with a pretty high lifetime bolt
count.
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Southern Man
climber
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Aug 31, 2004 - 11:48am PT
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Hey Fly'n Brian:
Just wondering, did Beyers go into any detail about why he thought the route shouldn't have been put up in the first place.
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10b4me
Trad climber
Where Fair Oaks meets Altadena
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2004 - 12:24pm PT
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hey dmitri,
two things
1) quit shouting
2) Jody is certainly not a bolt chopper. you should research threads so as not to take comments out of context.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 31, 2004 - 12:52pm PT
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There are situations where bolt chopping is a controversial act that, from a certain point of view has it's place.
This is not one of them. Vandalism and trashing a classic route on El Cap is not acceptable. Now that we have gone beyond mere hearsay and seen some pictures and heard testimony, I feel OK about saything that Jim can go screw himself with a cheater stick.
I mean, on one hand the guy doesn't have a problem putting up a route on Middle Cathedral that crosses Paradise Lost and effectively adds bolts to it, and then squeezes an even more unnatural line next to WEML and trashes it. Does he just make up his climbing ethics as he goes along to justify what he wants to do?
The wall of El Cap is not the wall of a subway station.
I'm just going to take a break from this posting before I say things I should think about first.
ARRGHh
Karl
PS Went to Solo WERL years ago but, since I had a job at the time, realized I might not make it back to work in time so I bailed. By chopping bolts on the first pitch, are we talking about the lead out free slab, or the steep pitch out of the corner of the alcove? I can't imagine anyone thinking that the free pitch was overbolted.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Aug 31, 2004 - 02:05pm PT
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Hey Fly'n Brian, thanks for getting the story straight!
The new Alpinist (8) has a page from Beyer where he talks about chopping, good to read to get an idea of his train of thought.
Whatever your opinion (mine is that he's ego tripping), at least you can say one thing: he's not lying about it.
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Aug 31, 2004 - 02:47pm PT
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Anyone who's interested in seeing bolts by a lovely 5.9ish crack should give a go at La Bella Luna on Fairview. Sporty bolting up friable face maybe 8 feet at the farthest away from a protectable corner. Check out the FA.
For other good times, give Paradise Lost on Middle Cathedral a whirl. Of course the retrobolt on one of the routes run outs is really from another route that just happens to run right up the middle of it. Not positive about the FAist, but he seemed to have a penchant for placing heads for pro, and rumor has it...
I'm all for people asserting their individuality and having a spirit of adventure, but it seems bogus to dash someone else's idea of adventure in the name of 'upping the ante' when some of your own creations are at odds with what you are foisting upon everyone else.
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DIMITRIBARTON
climber
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Aug 31, 2004 - 03:51pm PT
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Yo, 10b4me I will never quit shouting and if you look above I clearly stated I was wrong about Jody and I apologized twice. Don't think you can shut me up...not gona ever happen. And about Beyer, he will never learn to let people climb as they please. After chopping Cookie Monster years ago he was shoved around and thrown to the ground by someone that held back from doing way worse..... he is just a chump and has no right to tell others how to climb. WHO DOES?? OH YEAH 10b4me, pissss offff sacklicker!!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 31, 2004 - 05:23pm PT
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Hi Dimitri
Take it it easy here, ok ... , don't get too worked up,... life's short...
Werner
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