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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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May 29, 2007 - 09:54pm PT
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My aging process is taking a toll the "other way." My mind is going.....
Now, I suppose I can put my most recent episode down to the fact that I have the absolutely, unbelievably WORST cold/allergy/SOMETHING going on right now(I have never in my life felt so wretched)......But it makes a good story, so here goes:
I stopped at the local gourmet deli last night and purchased some items; about one bag's worth. The checkout is sort of in the middle of the store, and while most people will leave the cart there, I find it nice to roll it to the front of the store as I go out. It saves the checkout area from getting crowded, and helps out at the same time. Plus, I stick the bags in the cart, making it easier to navigate through the crowded aisles. A win/win situation.
So.....last night I do my shopping, and I stroll out the store with that cart, bag of groceries sitting inside. I am about 50 feet down the sidewalk when it occurs to me that something feels.....wrong.... "Why is this cart feeling so bumpy?" I ask myself.
It still takes a moment for me to realize that I am halfway down the block, rolling the cart. I forgot to deposit it in the cart area as I left the store and have started to head home with the cart.
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John Moosie
climber
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May 29, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
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Warbler, your advice is good for a strain. Ed's pain sounds like its been more long term and has become chronic. This indicates something beyond a strain.
Get diagnosed, then do Physical therapy of some sort, ie chiro, PT, cranial sacral or one of the others to get your body back to the way it is suppose to be, then yoga to keep it that way. A good therapist can show you exactly whats out of alignment and can show you what stretches and exercises will help you.
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john hansen
climber
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May 29, 2007 - 10:35pm PT
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Ever try an MRI? That would show what type of injury it is.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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May 29, 2007 - 10:42pm PT
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Ed, there's an AK (Applied Kinesiologist) in Los Gatos that did wonders for me when I compressed my L5. He's an amazing guy and has the touch you're looking for in a quality DC. He dialed me in so well I haven't had an issue with it since.
Here's the link to his site. You should give him a call.
http://www.drbloink.com/
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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May 29, 2007 - 10:50pm PT
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might as well just accept it, you're fu**ed - washed up and ready to begin that not so slow slide into complete and total disability, dementia, and finally, a painful and lonely death.
cheers,
Raydog
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2007 - 11:03pm PT
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Raydog, you goin' to be at the Vedauwoo Boogaloo?
Even it if sounds like I'm whining, I think I have a few years left... just wish I could figure out what grace is about.... and everyone here has had some very very good advice for me!
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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May 29, 2007 - 11:07pm PT
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Raydog, thats sound advice. We all are.
Seriously, everyone of our backs is deteriorating daily. The only thing you can tell from an x-ray is whether there are broken bones. MRI would show in detail the individual discs, and any changes in the discs, and the spaces between the discs.
An MRI film of anyones spine over 40 is gonna show degenerative disc disease (arthritis). If you suffered an acute injury, the film would show movement of the discs, possibly impinging the spinal cord. Extremity tingling is an easy to spot symptom.
Stay away from the chiros. Theres a reason noone trusts their testimony in court. Lots of em.
Keep begging your insurance for referral to the mri, with lots of complaints of pain, and you should get it.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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May 29, 2007 - 11:20pm PT
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Just some (black humor) levity - the irony being I tweaked my back a little just the other day and it reminded me what a dark place an injury can be mentally, emotionally.
Ed, thanks for asking about the Vedauwoo thing, kinda doubt I'll be there - I could explain why but it might just seem negative...
hope your back gets better - buy the way, my advice is to spend as much time in the water as possible, hot tub, swimming whatever - the water has really helped me but, sadly it does not make me superhuman.
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John Moosie
climber
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May 29, 2007 - 11:24pm PT
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" just wish I could figure out what grace is about..."
Ageing gracefully means taking your wisdom or the wisdom of others and applying it. You aren't whining, you stated a problem and looked for solutions. Whining would be if you didn't use those solutions. Those who age gracefully apply the solutions.
My 2 cents....
Moosie
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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May 29, 2007 - 11:29pm PT
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also, I kinda think aging gracefully means letting go in a timely manner - not giving up - but knowing when to let go and maybe move into new sports like...
strip bars or
filter-less cigarettes or
really good whiskey or
hash
ya know?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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May 29, 2007 - 11:30pm PT
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Hey Ed, I am sorry to hear about your troubles. I also have a lower back problem periodicly, can't straighten up, bad nerve pain shooting down my legs, etc... So I have some personal interest in the subject, and I would recommend you read a study that came out recently in one of the big medical journals JAMA, NEJOM, not too sure. Anyway, the upshot of the study, which was a big one in terms of the patients surveyed, said that people with problems like ours did not wind up getting any better in the long run, or get better any faster if they had surgery or not. In other words, surgery gave no improvement statisticly over just doing PT. Having had a number of surgeries myself I can categorically state that if you can avoid it you should. One way I think about having surgery is that you have to get over whatever was wrong in the first place, plus the wounds incurred in the surgery. And if they shuffle much stuff around that is a huge amount of trauma to deal with. That said, I'm crystal clear on the idea that some things cannot get better without getting cut on. I'd just make sure that I only got cut with aome real assurances it would improve my condition a lot.
good luck, good buddy! MS
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Off the Couch
Trad climber
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May 29, 2007 - 11:36pm PT
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Oh dear, I'm sorry I didn't read this thread sooner.
Please heed the advice to see a chiropractor.
You have 'structural' problems, if you think about your bones as architecture. Yours is imbalanced, probably at that L4-l5 joint, which is common among taller folks.
It will change your life, seeing a responsible chiro. Please be open to it, because as you've learned yourself, conventional medical treatment is pretty laisez faire - a prescription and maybe physical therapy if you're lucky.
One thing your conventional provider is good for is getting X-rays and an MRI done. Then take those to a chiro whom you vet through recommendations gathered here and elsewhere.
Take care,
Jen
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Varied locales along the time and space continuum
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May 30, 2007 - 01:18am PT
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I forgot to mention physical therapy. I second (ninth?) that opinion from others. PTs and Chiros are into correcting body mechanics. I've found a lot of MDs (likely because they are on patient quotas at HMOs like Kaiser) are under pressure to get you in and out fast. The easiest way is just to make the pain go away.
Some MDs, such as physical medicine specialists may suggest steroid injections into the spine. When trying to get an MRI so my chiro could look at the report, my general practitioner basically said in response, "So you want to get steroids injected in your spine." He was having a bad day. I switched to a new doctor. :-)
Most intangible of all is this: In my humble experience, I have found physical therapists and chiropractors have a lot more interest in you and take the time to get to know and help you. The "rushed" doctor may have this as her intention, but cannot always deliver. Genuine concern, compassion and a willingness to listen are fantastic medicine.
I think you will find a solution that works for you, Ed. Good luck.
Eric
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L
climber
A small kayak on a very big ocean
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May 30, 2007 - 12:50pm PT
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Ed,
You've been getting a lot of good advice here--the cranial-sacral chiropractor really can work wonders. My mom (77) was having pinched nerve problems in her hip, and now is pain and limp free thanks to a cs chiro she sees once a month.
For myself, acupuncture has done amazing things towards relieving muscle and nerve pain, and allowing regeneration of nerve cells. I've pulled tendons in both hands, and, while wrestling with an 8 foot wave in Hawaii several years ago, pulled a muscle in my back that had me doubled up for a week.
Now, I am a total needle-phobe, but when I couldn't climb anymore because of the pulled tendon, I got desperate. One of my climbing friends was studying to be an acupuncturist, and talked me into trying it.
First session, the constant pain in my hand was lessened by at least 80%. I kid you not. Within 3 months I was back to normal and climbing without any pain at all. (This was after a full year of struggling with pain and compromised/non-existant gripping ability.) He also worked on my back, which had never been the same since Hawaii. Tremendous relief from a constant soreness around L5, and eventually the soreness went away never to return.
If you haven't tried this path, Ed, please check into it. I think you'll be amazed at the results.
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nvrws
climber
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Ed,
always enjoy your posts and TR... I laugh at all the advice, just like life.. some good, some bad(no disrespect, but sounding off about chiros and issues of trust is sophmoric sic). First and foremost, you need a doc you can communicate with. Last time i checked healthcare was a team approach, you the patient in the drivers seat and us clinicians trying our best to help you the patient out and, hopefully doing so within a construct that both clinician and more importantly patient are comfortable with.
Back pain: difficult to diagnosis the tissue of origin, despite what anybody says. X-rays/MRI scans/discograms etc. do not necessarily identified the source of pain(if I had a dollar for every normal MRI scan). All leg numbness does not equal radiculopathy(pressure on nerve). Treatment for low back pain is also like life, lots of different flavors, most of which work. The key is to find a good clinician who is knowledgable in treating low back pain and has a number of tricks in the bag. Also, all lowback pain is not lowback pain.
muchas suerta or however you say goodluck.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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The Chiropracter has helped me a lot with pinched nerve issues before. I've also had it do nothing at all. It's not that spendy to give it a try and it's doubtful they'd work you over harder than a Yosemite wide crack.
I've had a lot of mysterious back and neck pain since I as a teenager. Working my core has helped keep it under control. Managing my computer use and posture has helped keep the aggravation in check.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Ed, scanned the posts and no one has mentioned possibly a pelvic thing going on. Mechanism of original injury of course sounds like back, but you mentioned pushing with the leg in chimmeny's hurt or flair up the symptoms. Does sneezing or coughing ever hurt the low back? Are the symptoms muscular or joint, sharp, dull, achiness. Do they go away when you stop the activity that flairs it up? Sometimes the pelvis can rotate, slip up or down, in or out and this will all effect how the muscles in the low back function. Shoot me an email if you want to talk specifics rather than bore everyone here with our rambling. Hope you get some relief, lots of good ideas here!
Peace
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Knob Central
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Did you know? The ideal posture while sitting in a chair is for the back to be 135 degrees from the seat! Yes, that means your chair back is 45 degrees farther back than vertical. Most people find it a very odd posture but once you get used to it your back will have less problems. Assuming you actually sit properly in your seat - butt all the way back against the back of the chair. It feels weird but you should try it.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Knob Central
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I have found that if I want to 'up' the training level, I also need to 'up' the amount of stretching I do or I have problems. It's amazing how much pain you can get in just because you let you quads and glutes get too tight and they pull your lower back and hips into positions that aren't straight. I find that most of the time I can actually stretch my way out of sciatica, but it does take a week or two.
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