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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Names are Jay and Jeanette.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2007 - 11:17pm PT
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You got it Jay, I was close. Next time I see you I will give you your gear. Maybe at the Facelift. If you are down here before send me an email and I will get it to you. You all should take notice how I have slyly identified another Supertopian.
Ken
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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One time at burningman (or was it bandcamp?) I hung with some friends from reno who operated a playa forge, cool stuff.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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A thread that's both HOT (the piton and Ken, anyway), and cool. What can you say?
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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Careful with that hammer and flip flops! ;)
I love the ring of the hammer on hot steel. It has that medieval quality to it. Taking metalwork back a few centuries to its roots can be a blast.
It looks like you are doing quite well, especially for a beginner! Have fun. It can be addictive workin' metal. I do it for a living. I don't forge but I fabricate and machine. I love it.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 15, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
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A little tidbit from the 1968 Chouinard Catalog at the height of the Iron Age.
The decriptive rather than numbered Arrow sizes also reflected the handwork still present in shaping and finishing the tapered portion. After 1965, each Lost Arrow started out as a drop forged blank with the die configured to produce a finished anvil, eye and shoulder with the blade area to be finished by hand. As a result of the die forging process, the original flat bar shape of the Lost Arrow eye was replaced by the tapered top web of the modern Arrow. Hand forging this web into existence would seem to be rather tricky and time consuming but produces a stouter piton.
Several Lost Arrows to compare.
The top one is a hand forged and stamped early version. The mythical and somewhat short-lived Long Dong, in the die forged mode. A numbered Camp Lost Arrow (the same approximate size as the top one) once the handwork had almost entirely left the production process and USA was replaced by Italy as the die mark of origin.
Edit:the descriptive size designation was still in place for the first generation of Italian Camp Arrows as of 1975. As to whether the handwork left with the numbering system or at the point of import is still unclear.
Ken- Please ask YC if this recounting is accurate. I would be curious as to his comments or observations here.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 17, 2007 - 10:58am PT
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I just scored another pre 64 entirely hand forged Arrow on ebay for a Jackson! Never been struck from the look of it. Pics soon.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 17, 2007 - 11:25am PT
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Ken, what a hoot. Next up, a set of bongs (since those are hard
to find these days). But seriously, you could make some cool
tuning forks for the masses.
Circle-K, too funny. But diamonds and circles are passe. Go modern
with a fractal.
BTW, what/when is the facelift?
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2007 - 12:10pm PT
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k-man,
The Facelift is September 26-30.
Ken
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 20, 2007 - 02:11pm PT
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Another old gem and the Golden Arrow, the long gone short thin!
The handwork in this old Arrow is evident in the gorgeous patina and surface character.
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MassiveD
Trad climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 05:22am PT
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The forming part is no problem, but the heat treating, does anyone know. Being say 4130, or 4140, it isn't going to fully harden when quenched anyway, so is it just take to trans temp and dump in water?
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2012 - 07:34am PT
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MassiveD,
If I recall correctly, the pitons, once shaped, were reheated until they took on a purplish hue and then were dropped in a bucket of oil.
Ken
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 15, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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If you have technical questions about making pitons come and ask Tom Frost, Jerry Gallwas and Dick Long directly at the Oakdale Climbers Festival Oct 26- 28.
http://www.supertopo.com/inc/postreply.php?topic_id=1902674&tn=60
Sunday is gear day with a symposium entitled "Forging Ahead- American Climbing Hardware in the 1940s, 50s and 60s." Three decades of American made hardware will be on display along with much more including a staggering array of John Salathé pitons which will be on display for the entire event!
Ken will also be there so you can see his short video of the entire process as Yvon makes an Arrow. Don't miss it!
Make sure to register by this Friday October 19 to avoid a $20 admission fee.
http://climb.oakdalecity.com/
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micronut
Trad climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
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I think it would be fun to do a current day "All Steel" ascent of Nutcracker. For old time sake, ya know?
Lets be honest....it'd be a really fun day out.
Ping......ping......ping.....
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 15, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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You da Micronutcracker!
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MassiveD
Trad climber
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Oct 15, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Ken, that sounds like drawing the temper (softening). They must have hardened first. I guess I need to research what steel they were using, probably a standard spring steel heat treat.
It would be cool to run into Tom Frost, that would be a huge one on the not worthy meter. Any of those guys members here, and can one email them?
My forge runs off propane, so it should be California friendly. Though happily I live in Canada were all pollution is forgiven.
After a quick google.
The internet says, that ford axles are 4140, and that purple heat is north of 500. With a full carbon steel 520, would take you to about where 4140 goes when quenched in oil and not tempered at all. So my guess is that 500 is just a quality control thing to ensure that no spike of hardness remains in the steel that might undermine toughness. Or it drops the hardness a smidge, though the Ansi sheet for 4140 I dug up does not show a tempering heat south of 1000, so that would tend to imply that nothing interesting is happening at that carbon level, and that heat.
Another thing I saw put 4140 at 500F at 48 RC. That sounds a plausible level of hardness for something intended to perform like an aircraft part after having been pounded into granite.
I think in my neighbourhood it is probably cheaper to buy pitons than 4140. The exception might be in for RURP sized stuff, or hooks.
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Guangzhou
Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
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Oct 15, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
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The Long Dong, like pictured above, was my favorite cleaning tool. Carried and used it for over 10 years. Let me ex-wife use it once while we were climbing in Yosemite, and she dropped it from pitch eight, never saw it again. Maybe it was sign of things to come.
Would love to replace the Long Dong, that's for sure.
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