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MisterE
Social climber
RimDweller, AZ
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:22am PT
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The Hero With 1000 Faces.
Thanks for your thoughtful posts, Werner. Very nice.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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Jesus is OK in my book.
He liked his Wine and was highly suspicious of Tax Collectors.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:30am PT
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Jesus had twelve Apostles and a bunch of Disciples. We only hear about a couple of them and some dude named Paul. From what I can gather from the words of just the Man himself(the red letters), Those boys didn't quite get it. They couldn't go all the way with their faith and instead just started a new institution of dogma.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Apr 17, 2007 - 03:07am PT
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"He liked his Wine and was highly suspicious of Tax Collectors."
Jesus was a f*#king rebel yo!!!!
F*#k the police coming straight from the underground!!!
[i swear too much non edit]
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
Hell on earth wondering what I did to deserve it
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Apr 17, 2007 - 08:19am PT
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The man has done some really fascinating research on this subject. I've listened to many of his lectures and they blew me away. Fantastic stuff. You may be interested in some of his work.
Bart D. Ehrman
James A. Gray Distinguished Professor
Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary, 1985
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
117 Saunders Hall
(919) 962-3940
behrman@email.unc.edu
Speciality field: Ancient Mediterranean Religions
Research interests: New Testament interpretation; Apostolic Fathers; early Christian apocrypha; orthodoxy and heresy in early Christianity; New Testament textual criticism
From his bio online:
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. He recently finished a term of service as Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at UNC.
Professor Ehrman completed his M.Div. and Ph.D. degrees at Princeton Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna c#m laude. Since then he has published extensively in the fields of New Testament and Early Christianity, having written or edited nineteen books, numerous articles, and dozens of book reviews. Among his most recent books are a college-level textbook on the New Testament, two anthologies of early Christian writings, a study of the historical Jesus as an apocalyptic prophet (Oxford Univesity Press), and a Greek-English Edition of the Apostolic Fathers for the Loeb Classical Library (Harvard University Press).
Professor Ehrman has served as President of the Southeast Region of the Society of Biblical literature, chair of the New Testament textual criticism section of the Society, book review editor of the Journal of Biblical Literature, and editor of the monograph series The New Testament in the Greek Fathers (Scholars Press). He currently serves as co-editor of the series New Testament Tools and Studies (E. J. Brill) and on several other editorial boards for monographs in the field.
Winner of numerous university awards and grants, Professor Ehrman is the recipient of the 1993 UNC Undergraduate Student Teaching Award, the 1994 Phillip and Ruth Hettleman Prize for Artistic and Scholarly Achievement, and the Bowman and Gordon Gray Award for excellence in teaching.
CV: http://www.unc.edu/depts/rel_stud/people/facultydocs/CV-Ehrman.htm
Personal page: http://bartdehrman.com/
enjoy.
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MisterE
Social climber
RimDweller, AZ
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Apr 17, 2007 - 10:29am PT
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The Nag Hammadi Scrolls have some interesting insights, as well:
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
Historical excerpt:
Gnosticism's emphasis on personal experience, its continuing revelations and production of new scripture, its asceticism and paradoxically contrasting libertine postures, were all met with increasing suspicion. By 180 C.E. Irenaeus, bishop of Lyon, was publishing his first attacks on Gnosticism as heresy, a labor that would be continued with increasing vehemence by the church Fathers throughout the next century.
Orthodoxy Christianity was deeply and profoundly influenced by its struggles with Gnosticism in the second and third centuries. Formulations of many central traditions in Christian theology came as reflections and shadows of this confrontation with the Gnosis.5 But by the end of the fourth century the struggle was essentially over: the evolving ecclesia had added the force of political correctness to dogmatic denunciation, and with this sword so-called "heresy" was painfully cut from the Christian body. Gnosticism as a Christian tradition was largely eradicated, its remaining teachers ostracized, and its sacred books destroyed.
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jesus
Social climber
ca
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Apr 17, 2007 - 10:55am PT
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WBraun stated:
"You ask to many questions, troll to much and don't research."
You dont ask enough, open your heart a little,stop being so rigid in you beliefs.
"You can't understand the real truth of this stuff unless you first purify your heart and soul."
That sounds like the biggest pile of bullshit , what does that mean to anyway ?
"You just like to argue."
Amazing that you would say something like this WBraun.
"Leave the material world behind for 20 years and really search."
More steamy bullsh#t, leave what,go where, do what with whom,when ?
"Then come back here."
Okay preacher!
"You'll never do it though, as you just want to play and look at it as a curiosity."
Good faith in the human spirt, your soul needs some searching.
"If you are really serious then don't bother replying to my post, just do it."
Maybe you should be a little more open to other peoples personal journeys and not your own very narrow one. There are many roads to travel upon that all end up in the same place.
Jesus
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Apr 17, 2007 - 11:07am PT
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i had a chocolate Jesus that i melted then poured over ice cream
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:09pm PT
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So have you found him yet?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:13pm PT
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Why so curious about Jesus, Wes?
From your previous posts regarding religion in general, I find it interesting. If you really want some answers, read the end of the Old Testament and continue into the New Testament. Then, go to a priest with any questions that arise. Try a Catholic or Lutheran priest though.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:17pm PT
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I'm not a Christian, but if you want to know Jesus, just talk to him. He's still around. Same thing with the Buddhas and the other Gods. If you call on them, they will communicate with you. You don't need scholars, or texts any interpretations (although these can help you get on the plane of consciousness that the deity represents). Once you open the channel, the message will be tailored to you. If this dimension of your consciousness isn't opened yet, then that opening is what you should be seeking if you really want to "know Jesus".
Lots of people are impressed with the miracles of Jesus or other religious figures, but these are a distraction for most people. Miracles are happening all the time, but people have tuned them out. The whole creation is a contstant, ever changing,living breathing miracle. Just because you can communicate directly with the gods, does not mean you will be granted special powers or authority (this seems to be a common misconception) if that is not your destiny.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:31pm PT
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Is there definitive evidence that there ever was a literal Jesus? -the bible doesn't count-
or is it just stories?
Not that there's anything wrong with that
-might even be better that way
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:33pm PT
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Well put Malabarista. I just finished reading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis over my vacation to Florida. Being a former Atheist, he has interesting views on the subject. It's well written too. I think it was written in 1942 during The War, but it easily applies universally. I recommend it. The Screwtape Letters are pretty good too, but that deals with the 'Dark Side', a correspondance between two demons on how to influence and lead humans astray.
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randomtask
climber
North fork, CA
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:49pm PT
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Jesus built my hot rod.
-JR
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 17, 2007 - 12:52pm PT
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It's in the interests of power that religions demand belief in literal events that are impossible to verify.
If you have an authentic religious experience, the religion might no longer be necessary. The pertinent realization is in the present moment, and knowing the literal form of the past isn't necessary.
You don't need the pulpit, an intermediary institution, or any individual interpreter if you can communicate directly with your god.
This realization is actually discouraged. Once you find out how easy it is, you realize most religions are only helpful to spiritual neophytes.
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Gordon
Trad climber
South Florida
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:00pm PT
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Religion is what keeps poor people from murdering rich people.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:36pm PT
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Dunno if anyone's linked to this yet, but it runs down most of the theories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
Bottom line is there is no reputable historical documenation that corroborates the gospels. It's a matter of faith, and that's a matter of personal preference and/or mindless indoctrination. People believe what they want to believe.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:38pm PT
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Wes, the way I've come to understand the Christian belief in Jesus Christ is this (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong);
Jesus was (is) the manifestation of God on Earth. The holy trinity of Father, the Son , and Holy Spirit (ghost) are essentially the same things...representations of God trying to communicate his love for us. Jesus tried to save us through teachings, miracles, and basic examples of God's love for us. He died to illustrate that if you have faith you cannot be 'killed', you simply move onto another existance with God. Although, some say he died to illustrate how far we had gotten from God, to show us just how savage we could be.
Essentially he appeared to be human on Earth but was sent by God to teach us what God really wanted from us. Why he created us. To share his love and kindness.
Maybe someone can elaborate a bit more, but that's the way I see it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 17, 2007 - 02:48pm PT
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That's a mean thing to say about my mom.
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