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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Pete, you're such a dick. You don't want people saying sh#t about you, then why stir up 30 year old embellished gossip?
As I heard the story, Mr. B. did get punched by Mr. C., but it wasn't a sucker punch, and the boys grew into men and got over it.
Edit to say that I hope Steve is doing OK and heals up enough to enjoy the rest of his season there.
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jackass
climber
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Josh and Zach sound like they must work with the Bush Admin.
Go to another country, act like you own it, do whatever the hell you want.
Way lame. (if it is true...)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Well, I read about it in a climbing magazine, so it must be true.
This past fall, the leader of a team of three guys from Oregon put a bolt in the Hollow Flake. I was on Mammoth Terraces at the time and watched, listened, and took photos [available]. Steve Schneider had ropes fixed up Bermuda Dunes to the Hollow Flake. We told him about the bolt, and I got the feeling he removed it, although I am not certain. Anyone see a bolt in the Hollow Flake this fall?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Seems pretty arrogant to chop the pioneering route on the Peak, particularly by a foreigner. I hate that stuff.
This would be a interesting tale to hear Shipoopi style.
Peace
karl
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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WTF
Is that true Pete?
I like Josh but if this is true it seems disrespectful.
Likewise on Hollow Flake. Thats GOTTA be a troll. I was gonna say "how could a party get to that point without appreciating what they were doing?" and then I remembered those stupid lame-butt fixed ropes to Heart and what gym climbing has done to traditional skills acquisition.
OMG this might be time to get out.
Man always kills the thing he loves.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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I kinda like Little Cotton-er's style of writing.... reminds me of someone else I know, who writes a similar style......ya gotta flow with it......put your feet up , tilt your head back, and float through it.......(and the story is very interesting.....)
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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Pretty funny if true that they went up there with a crowbar to remove a 200 bolt route....I bet that lasted all of 5 minutes.
Reminds me when some locals chopped the ropes to Hart to have the Free Rider to themselves......we climbers get into so much trouble when it comes to ethics.
Can you imagine if you had trained for years to finally climb Cerro Torre, saved all you hard earned cash for the trip, waited for 3 weeks just to get on the route only to find out that the party before you chopped the bolts.....Get over it though because we can climb it without them (except for the anchors of course).
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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I just want to get a post in before this puppy blows past 100, cuz I ain't checking it after that.
cheers, and good trolling,
Mungeninetittook
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I wasn't going to say it Todd.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Yes you were, Ron......admit it.....you were......(And remember....me is a teacher.....I mean......Me am a teacher....)..I guess bad style is better than no style..(or is it?)
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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I don't personally know any of the players involved--but I'll take a shot at criticizing the situation, and in all honesty, sounds like "The Patagonia Perma-tourist Confrontation". I've always read that Bean Bowers list his "hometown" as Bozeman, MT--which I suppose COULD be true (but it's not, just living for a spell here does not make one a local, not even effing-close).
If Bean did say the remark about "not here in my town", then El Chalten can have all of those types that it wants--maybe, just maybe, Bean will (or has) claim(ed) El Chalten and Patagonia to be "his town" and drop the Bozeman monniker--who needs jerks like that associating themselves with "aw-shucksy" Montucky ?
Now the flip side would say that Bean was getting cowboy on the uppity Shipoopi--but I'll bet not. Let the Patagonia Turf Wars begin !
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Cesare Maestri spoke in ft fun of all places - 99(?) at the after party for the horsetooth hang.
he said if you really wanted to put the bolts back in on that last pitch, we left the compressor...bring tools, gaskets, fuel...and go for it...
history. like it or not. it's there, right ?
is chopping them in this case like adding them after the fact...not your route, not right ? they are there, don't f'ing clip em if you wanna play that way...?
(ya know, i've wanted to try to start that compressor for 7 years now...edit to add - looks like it needs a regulator too though...)
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Tim Lawrence
Trad climber
Madrid, Spain
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Sounds like there are some stupid people on either side of the issue.
Let me share a situation that I encountered a couple months ago. I was at a local granite crag, here in Spain close to Madrid, and I stumbled across a beautiful splitter finger crack that someone had placed bolts every three feet. Granted to me this is like shitting in my Holy Grail. I left that day thinking I would be coming back soon to remove the bolts. But before I took any action, I confided what I was thinking to a couple of friends. Their opinion was unanimous. They politely told me that: 1.) I didn’t open the route, 2.) It’s not my home crag, 3.) Ethics are different here in this country, 4.) It’s not my country and neither is it my place to do anything about it. Imported ethics are not welcome.
I think it’s as simple as that.
Look, it doesn’t matter if your Josh whoever. Stupid behavior is inexcusable.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Unbefrickinlievable!
Now I am all for chopping bolts, but the COMPRESSOR ROUTE!?!?!
Seriously, WTF were they thinking??? Jerk and Zero started a shatstorm and they are going to suffer for it. Steve did nothing wrong in my opinion. Collapsing a tent at a base camp is nothing, it takes what, 5 minutes to set it back up? Get over it.
He should have pressed charges on this Bean Bowers jackass.
"don't mess with my friends", oh boy... Bring your stupid ass to the Valley and you'll find out how many friends Shipoopi has.
The overwhelming impression I am left with is that a lot of people in my generation did a piss poor job teaching their children how to be good humans.
Chopping the Compressor, man, I hope that follows them around forever, like WoS.
So the current theme of climbing news lately has been "Prideful jackass makes self into Pariah".
Losers...
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itso
climber
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"Let me share a situation that I encountered a couple months ago. I was at a local granite crag, here in Spain close to Madrid, and I stumbled across a beautiful splitter finger crack that someone had placed bolts every three feet. Granted to me this is like shitting in my Holy Grail. I left that day thinking I would be coming back soon to remove the bolts. But before I took any action, I confided what I was thinking to a couple of friends. Their opinion was unanimous. They politely told me that: 1.) I didn’t open the route, 2.) It’s not my home crag, 3.) Ethics are different here in this country, 4.) It’s not my country and neither is it my place to do anything about it. Imported ethics are not welcome".
Why chop the bolts? Isn't climbing about your personal experience and not about forcing others to experience climbing the way you think they should? Did you climb said crack on gear?
Two years ago I visited granite crag in Asia. Noticed bolted line that seemed protectable with gear. Tried to onsight it skipping all bolts but two (need some real big pieces). Local people were impressed by my effort and asked me to leave the gear to inspect the placements. The news even made it to a local website. I had it my way and everything was cool. What would've happened if instead I showed up with the crowbar? Where does this arrogance come from?
itso
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Riley said:
"You guys all suck picking on grammar and spelling."
I've always wondered how comeone can say that? The communications going on here is in written form. If someone can't lucidly present something here, then it should be perfectly okay to give them cr*p. The only thing we get when people say it's bad form to pick on someone who can't spell or write (on a written forum, no less) is a whole bunch of illegible junk. I direct you to the rest of the internet for examples. Think of it as folks raising the bar of expectation to urge people to communicate at a higher level.
Having said that, the way the original post was written, I just assumed it was someone for whom English is not a primary language.
CyaL8tr. PeeceOut!
(just kidding)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Seems to me that there is a fair amount of spin in these reports (gee, you think?), and I suppose its best to reserve judgment until the facts are truly established.
Jumping to conclusions tends to compound misunderstandings.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Hell
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A compressor. How cool is that? Were the alleged protagonists planning on cutting that loose too?
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Micah Dash
climber
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Josh and Zack are two of the most talented and humble climbers I know. What they did was an example of skill, and vision. They decided not to take the easy wasy out. Integerity and honesty are hallmarks of Alpinism as they are hallmarks of Josh's and Zack's personality. Did they summit? I have no idea, they haven't even gotten off the palne yet. But, they have no reason to lie. Crux or not Josh and Zack both have the skills to summit the ice mushroom on Cerro Torre anybody who has climbed with them can atest to that.
Micah Dash
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