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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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My heartfelt condolences to the family and friends - very sad....
-tom
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Jerry, if he was on Love Stinks, there's about 25' of 3rd class to a ledge, then the climb is 101' or so off the ledge. So you can just barely rap to the ledge with most 60m ropes, but you can't lower to the ledge if belaying on the ground unless you have a 70 (and you can't make it back to the ground unless you have an 80 - yes, at least one local has an 80m).
An accident at Red Rocks a few years ago was reportedly the leader yelling "off belay!", then threading the rope through the chains, then leaning back and expecting to be lowered, while the belayer was off taking pictures. I harp on partners to not say anything when they get to the anchors if they're planning to get lowered, other than "slack" and "take" during the threading process. One reason why open anchors like Owens are nice - you avoid the untying and retying steps that you can mess up.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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That anyone would lean back without first verifying tension on the rope is completely
boggling - I simply cannot picture it. Yes, I've heard of many accidents, including one
from a friend who felt the thud of a girl who fell 60 feet from the top of The Bubble
at Mt St Helena in the late 80's. I have never, ever, ever leaned back without
first grabbing up the rope tight to feel strong resistance, and I never, ever will...
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Charles Perry
Big Wall climber
Fort Collins CO
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To everyone and anyone,
Mungeclimber stated that he feels too much of a retard to check another climbers rig. If this is the case than I could quality for special education. A major point of safety in climbing is reduncancy. Check each other once, even twice. Rappelling off old slings or bad bolts which can be backed up with a stopper and a runner do it! I would rather loose twenty bucks backing up a rappel than take a chance loosing my life. I could go on and on about the situations I have read about and witnessed were a double check could have saved someones life. This accident could have possibly been avoided if the person at the upper anchors checked his system twice! I have witnessed more than once a situation in sport climbing were the leader believes the belayer is going to lower him and the belayer believes that the leader is rapelling! Without checking the situation the leader lets go and thank god in both situations has been able to catch the rope and save himself from a bad to fatal accident that would have been avoided with minimal communication. I morn for the loss of a comrade, our only hope as the living is to learn from others mistakes so we avoid them and gain a conscienceness were saftey is paramount. Let us live to climb another day.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Very sad news. I enjoy climbing in the Gorge and go there frequently. It saddens me that this young man lost his life there..
Greg, I figured it had to be a situation like that when I saw the report specifying a fall of 115ft. When I read the initial report saying Great Wall Of China I wondered if maybe he was on Sendero Luminoso. Oh well, we'll know soon enough I'm sure...
It's easy to become complacent while sport climbing, bolts everywhere, taking whippers, everyone having fun.. Be careful out there folks.
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Adamame
Trad climber
Oakland
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I think I might have known this guy and was wondering if anybody could tell me anymore info. Is this the Ian who has lived at "The Pit" in Bishop frequently over the last year, while working construction jobs in Mammoth? I Believe this Ian also drove a silver Honda element, you know one of those boxey Toaster looking vans. For some reason I thought he was born a year later, but I might be wrong. If anybody can help me out let me know, and either way my heart goes out to his family and friends. It is allways a shame when we lose one of our tribe in such an unfortunate way.
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WBraun
climber
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Hardman Knott said it perfectly in his post up thread.
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Jill Dworkin
climber
Fort Worth, Texas
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Hey can anyone tell me how to get a hold of this guy's family...my family and I recently suffered a similar loss and I would like very much to contact them.
Thanks
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Heartfelt condolences to family and friends.
-Jeff Lowe
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BringYourOwnTR!
climber
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OH MY FU*KING GOD!!!!! Why did he rap instead of lower?!!!! Are you kidding me??!!!! He rapped because that's what you're supposed to do! For all those that lower and TR off the anchors: YOU ARE THE REASON THE ANCHORS LOOK LIKE SH*T!!! How do you think the anchors get worn like that?...from people who TR and lower off them. It's called friction. TR-ing and (ESPECIALLY) lowering create a massive amount of friction on the anchors. You get enough people doing this on a day-to-day or week-to-week basis, like all the jack asses do in the gorge, then you get sh*ty anchors. I see WAY too many people out there that don't understand this concept and they are the fuc*ing problem. AND...the quick-link anchors that are there only encourage that unethical behavior. I see the same thing at Clark Canyon too.
I have been climbing for almost 10 years throughout the world and it's sad that so many climbers out there do this. At least if the anchors are not quick-links, then it helps force people to use their own top rope. My wife and I always use our own TR and the last person on the route ALWAYS raps off, so no extra friction is put on the anchors. If more people did this, then there would not be the constant need for new anchors and less people would get hurt or worse, die.
Remember this...when you TR or lower off a route's anchors, you are putting every other climber after you in danger. You are prematurly weakening the anchors at an exponential rate. PLEASE STOP DOING THIS!
If you hear someone, like me and my wife, say "off belay!", that's usually a good sign that they're doing it right and rapping off rather then lowering. I will lower off all day long ON MY OWN TR, but never on the anchors themselves.
Bottom Line: Bring your own top rope and NEVER lower off the anchors.
That being said, my sincere condollences to the family and friends of the climber that lost his life.
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BringYourOwnTR!
climber
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and........
Did you not get the point? It's entirely possible that someone just died because of this problem. The details of this accident need to be released that state weather this was gear failure or human error. If it was in fact caused by the anchors being worn down, then this should be a massive wake-up call to everyone that contributes to this growing problem.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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i agree entirely, about NOT TRing on fixed gear, this will be an even greater tragedy if the cause was not pilot error but failure of eroded fixed gear due to careless and lazy fellow climbers who are so frequently unwilling to bother to preserve anchors.
greg- i'm really suprised that you seem to support the automatic lowering of the leader from the open shunts, don't you have enough work?
as for HK's post, that's close but not quite right-
you should of course be clipped in direct to something if you are untying your knot to rethread, and if you expect to lower off, you should have the belayer take up all the slack and be "on" their belay, weighting it entirely before you unclip from whatever you are in direct with. (edit- and therefore "leaning back" will only take you onto whatever you are in direct with, and at ORG you are usually hanging from it /edit)
it's not rocket science, but it sure is unfortunate whenever it goes south for any reason, add my condolences as well.
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hummingbyrd
climber
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To Margritte (hope I spelled this correctly): Thank you so much for contacting the Inyo Register for us. I was on the website but the latest was Feb 1. I printed out thye article and will take it along with the obit in Waukesha Freeman (with photo) to church tonight to post on our bulletin board. I am not a climber, but my daughter is. Wow, there's been a lot of convo since I last posted about the accident. It's nice to know there are so many great people in the world. Again,thank you all for info and God Bless you and be safe on those climbs - this comes from a mom.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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I didn't want to stir up any controversy in this thread, especially since I've been at that anchor in the last few weeks and I know it's not worn down.
TRing through fixed gear is generally a bad idea, and should be strongly discouraged in most areas.
However, Owens has a tradition of open anchors to allow quick lower-off by leaders, often with the second then leading (or the leader cleaning draws and the second not even climbing that route). For people TRing a group, use your own gear of course.
Locals have always known that this tradition means a lot more work maintaining anchors - which is why the mussy hook system (with an inch thick metal at the lower-off and easy changing of hooks) is great.
But the convenience and added safety of not messing around at anchors is seen as worth the extra effort it takes to maintain the anchors.
I know people get all worked up about this at many areas - I do myself - but the Owens system is NOT the same as most areas.
And, as we've all seen in every climbing area, a good number of people will TR through whatever anchors are there regardless of anchor wear. Considering the gritty volcanic dust and low humidity (static electricity = super dusty ropes), if we used chains at Owens they would get very scary in no time. The inch-thick mussy hooks wear half way through in a few years, are easily replaced, and if they get too scary you can leave a biner. Way better than the old cold shut system...
Greg
PS Mussy hooks can be sketchy on slabby anchors since the back of the gates can scrape the rope. We've figured out a relatively easy way of fixing this problem and so next summer I'll be working on the anchors at Clark Canyon (the most worn anchors there are nearly all on slabby rock). I'll likely be using huge glue-in bolts so we can replace the loosening bolts in the same holes.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Another one dies to rappelling while sport climbing. How sad. Only 23! Much love to friends and family and thank you to the may people who I'm sure helped in the recovery.
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BringYourOwnTR!
climber
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People who can't simply put two draws in at the top and lower off those instead of "quick clipping" are just lazy. Usually, you clip a draw into the anchor anyway when you get to the top. Either lower off that one, with the others below it as backups, or simply clip another draw in the other anchor and lower off both. The person being lowered can clean the route if the next person wants it cleaned and you can pull the rope after being lowered so the next person can lead it if they want. If you are the only one climbing the route then just clean it on the way down, but still rappell the route. No one should be lowering off the anchors EVER...bad habits get passed on to new climbers down the road and as this sport continues to grow, the bigger this problem will be.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Greg,
Does the donation box at Wilson's help you guys pay for the gear you need at Clark also?
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Dire Wolf
Trad climber
San Francisco
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um, yeah. sad. but always a good idea to rap or use your own gear for a top rope. it kinda figures it happend at the great wall of china, i usually call that place the rock gym due to the scene at it.
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