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DanaB
climber
CO
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Jan 12, 2019 - 08:05pm PT
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Well, Dana, how does writing papers improve yer clinical skills?
I think you're simplifying things and setting up an incorrect either/or.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jan 12, 2019 - 08:56pm PT
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i can't argue this issue, but don't feel the case has been made. skills and knowledge on one hand vs education and licencing on the other. no correlation?
never gave it much thought beyond having watched cider house rules. i just assumed it was yet another example of "their world, they win."
14 cfr 61.60
61.60 Change of address.
The holder of a pilot, flight instructor, or ground instructor certificate who has made a change in permanent mailing address may not, after 30 days from that date, exercise the privileges of the certificate unless the holder has notified in writing the FAA, Airman Certification Branch, P.O. Box 25082, Oklahoma City, OK 73125, of the new permanent mailing address, or if the permanent mailing address includes a post office box number, then the holder's current residential address.
i left alaska two days after my initial flight exam. i was told my ss# would suffice as my interim pilot's licence, and was all i had to offer the canadian border services at beaver creek in the yukon. to my surprise they were right.
a week later, i started doing (FAA/NWS certificated) weather observations at the second busiest airport in arizona on a schedule of 12 hour day shifts, fourteen days on/fourteen days off ... a schedule offered in response to the lack of housing available to the employees of federal contract holders "marginalized" outside grand canyon national park ... suited me fine as i had a long history of "failure to reside" and bandit camping in the forest, followed by two weeks of bumping around the southwest in the plane was the whole point of the move.
i did acquire a post office box but, for lack of a residence, had lost "the privileges of the certificate" before my ticket arrived in it
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 12, 2019 - 09:56pm PT
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Get the real deal
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jan 12, 2019 - 11:29pm PT
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Some one once told me I was a certified sob.
That was a totally worthless assessment, however;
PLUS I got no paper saying I did all that hard work.
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Zay
climber
Monterey, Ca
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Jan 13, 2019 - 09:00am PT
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My Rescue Diver Cert.
Not because the skills were worthless, but how the dive shop blasted through it with little training.
I was a student at CSU Monterey, going through their extensive dive programs. Each cert was a semester long affair. LOADS of training,and lectures with notes.
Halfway rhrough the Rescue course, I blew my tympany on a weekend fun dive. I could not complete the final exercises to get the cert.
I still got to take the written test, and went on to do Master and Research Diving... but for personl reasons, I really wished I had that Rescue Cert.
So when I finally took the rescue course at a local dive shop, I was apalled at how wam-bam-thankyouforyoumoney it was.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jan 13, 2019 - 09:18am PT
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kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
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Jan 13, 2019 - 10:38am PT
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I have a certificate, signed by the governor of Kentucky, that states that I am a "Kentucky Colonel". - and it has nothing to do with fried chicken.
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sween345
climber
back east
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Jan 13, 2019 - 11:08am PT
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Kentucky Colonels?
So you know The A-Train?
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2019 - 11:09am PT
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There's a legitimate case to be made (though in each case needing to be fully debated) for licenses in medicine and engineering, marginally in legal work.
As an EMT-4 I did not have a license, only a Cert. I worked under, what was called, a physician's standing orders. And so did all the PMs at the company I worked at. I went through EMT-1 thru EMT-4 program while gaining very little experience. I did gain a couple months experience as an EMT-1 before passing the EMT-4 exam.
During the EMT-1 course my instructor asked me, why do you want to become an EMT? And he suggested I do something else. I never came back with an answer. The short answer, had I actually thought about it, would have been--I have really poor self esteem. The instructor had been a medic and was probably in his mid 40's. He was a great guy. He read me like a book.
I was 26 and had already been married and divorced. I was a mess. If there is such a thing as childhood ptsd, I had that too. It wasn't from any one single childhood thing, it was from the combination of many screwed up family things--religion, father's alcoholism, mother's mental illness,lack of parenting, family of 9. Not blaming, just accounting.
The school program wasn't interested in my motives or defects. It was interested in growing it's budget and churning out students that passed the state exams. The clinical time was uncoordinated and mostly a waste. The ambulance 'ride along' time (not number of patient's treated) was also a waste. Everything had been done by the book. But there were discrepancies between schooling, training, qualifying, state certification and competency .
After two weeks of supervision while working as an emt-4 I was still green, and on my own to treat patients. I shared my story with a former surgeon friend of mine who said he had had some great mentors in his training, and that in looking back he was really impressed on how much patience his mentors had. He also said that if he had gone through the 'training' that I had gone through he wouldn't have done it.
During my four years as an emt-4 I only remember going to a couple of peer reviews with our physician advisor. No one was ever accused of gross negligence, even if it had been committed. I never heard of any EMT being fired for negligence; although, there had been dismissals for poor personal conduct. If gross negligence had been admitted to, I believe, it would have lead to everyone being sued; including, the physician advisor. I really don't know.
Many years later I listened to a radio program where an Ivy League medical physician was admitting to screwing up, which lead to his patients death. He had never imagined himself in such a position. He had given the talk before and after it people came forward to tell him that they had also carried a similar burden, and thanked him for sharing.
In this age of mega law suits there seems to be no allowances for human error. And yet, to err, is to be human. To learn, is....
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Jan 13, 2019 - 11:13am PT
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I've had my lead climbing certification temporarily revoked... in the gym. True 'dat.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 13, 2019 - 12:00pm PT
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There must be some form of benefit, either in terms of knowledge gained, pay enhancement, promotion eligibility, passing the initial screening for job interviews, etc.... Otherwise, what was the point? To alleviate boredom or to do something rather than nothing out of desperation?
The only certifications I've bothered with are ones that I knew would be worthwhile.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Jan 13, 2019 - 01:22pm PT
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I have a top rope belay cert. They even gave dude a laminated semi official card with my signature as well as the "instructor". It took me three tries over the course of 5 minutes. The teenager after some instruction finally certified me to belay my wife. I haven't used it again in years....
On a serious note I also have a secondary science teacher cert. While I value it in terms of employment I would say more than half the "stuff" we have to jump through to get it is worthless once you start teaching. A science degree, student teaching, and having the right personality is about all I needed to get started. The rest I picked up along the way. 2 additional years beyond a bachelor's for the cert is ridiculous. I've been teaching 15 years.
S...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 15, 2019 - 09:39am PT
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Aren't all certifications this way? It's just a first level filter, a basic one. Nobody for real wants your certs, they want a resume, portfolio and/or references.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 15, 2019 - 10:10am PT
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I think you're simplifying things and setting up an incorrect either/or.
And you’re afraid to answer the question. Look, I married into the medical biz. 3 docs, 2 PAs,
4 RNs, and an RNP. I’ve heard this discussion ad nauseum. And if you sat an employment
interview in front of La Femme and her cohorts they wouldn’t give a damn about any papers
you wrote. They want people with experience. Yes, the big organization cares but that’s
cause it’s run by pencil pushers. Yes, you’ll make more because of that extra sheepskin but
it won’t get you street cred, or respect, in La Femme’s dept (38 docs, 3 RNPs, innumerable
RNs) unless you can deliver. They sh!tcanned new docs because they can’t deliver. They
hired them cause they looked gud on paper but they couldn’t put the pedal to the metal.
It’s a jungle out there.
Oh, and when the Socialist Republic of Cali decided RNPs must have a Masters one of the
RNPs in La Femme’s dept kinda whiffed on getting grandfathered in paperwork. So they had
no choice but to lose the services of someone with 15 years clinical experience. They were
very nice and gave her a pencil-pushing job though. Another RNP with at least 10 yrs also
screwed up but the Socialist Republic let her continue working while she got her Madters.
She said it was a complete waste of time and money, except that she kept her job.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 15, 2019 - 05:35pm PT
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Modern-day scuba Open Water (like PADI OW) certifications are rather worthless today. They've cut back the training requirements in order to get more people through the door with a minimal amount of effort. OW graduates are just dangerous, and really need to continue training to achieve the proficiency of the old-time basic certification.
It's really worthwhile to consider getting your initial training through a more rigorous agency like Global Underwater Explorers. Be prepared though - if you don't pass the skills tests then you don't get a certificate.
A lot depends on the instructors. I took the PADI rescue course from an excellent instructor, and it was the one PADI course that was really worthwhile.
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