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jstan
climber
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Jan 28, 2007 - 09:31pm PT
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Don't you just love a problem? In 1938 bathrooms
ran more to tubs than anything else and we
didn't have fiberglass shower floors. If I needed
to find out the piping material I would unscrew
the flange which keeps water out of the wall
at the valves. You can look in. Be a good place
to look for water also.
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Scary Larry
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Jan 28, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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Definitely check out the plumbing, but there is a pretty good bet that if tile is involved, it was done poorly. Solving a few of these problems in my owm house, I founf the following info very valuable:
http://www.ontariotile.com/technical.html
The forum here:
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/
is frequented by masters of the tile world. Hope you don't spend more time there than on climbing forums...
Good luck
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Jan 29, 2007 - 12:37am PT
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It's possible that the shower pan was replaced from the original tile to fiberglass(because it leaked), and the 6X2 tiles were used to make the transition. Grout is not waterproof. There should be a waterproof membrane behind the tile. If there isn't, it will continue to leak. Even if there is, it's likely that it doesn't lap into the pan perfectly where it was retrofitted.
Choices:
-Tear out all tile, install membrane, retile. Only do this yourself if you like suffering.
-Tear out tile and install acrylic, or corian, etc panels- use same ahower base if good.
-Keep caulking. If it lasts 2 years- not too bad. I prefer latex tub/tile caulk as it is easier to apply and remove. Don't tear out the ceiling below- just repaint. It's not the problem, right?
-Install acrylic or other panels over the tile. This would be tacky.
- Convert basketball hoop to outdoor shower
Other possible leak sources as noted by others
- shower neck cracked where it screws in, inside the wall. (bigger leak)
- water leaking into wall around valve stems
- drain fitting leaking at pan, or trap leaking (water stain in middle of ceiling below drain)
Jay
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Abercrombie
Trad climber
Ca
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Jan 29, 2007 - 02:12am PT
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The shower is 100%tile. Almost all the way to the ceiling. One 'wall' is the glass door. The other wall is 2/3 glass. It backs up to the tub. All tile is grouted. The bathroom was updated about 6 years ago (before I bought).
I have tornout,repanned,retiled many a shower and a lot of steps have to be done right, from drain weep holes to not overlaping the paper enough, a lot can go wrong.
Just being tile does not make it waterproof,if it was enough I would not need to do a pan,tarpaper,float/wonderboard,drypack the floor so the little devil water can trickle down to the liner and make its way to the weep holes (that are about three inches below the rim you see).
The guy that showed me the ropes would fill the pan with water overnight to see if the pan was leaking.
If it were me I would cover the drain fill up to the dam and see if it is a leaker. Good Luck.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 29, 2007 - 02:13am PT
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I wonder who in SuperTopia, perhaps even this thread, may have been born in 1938? If so, very doubtful the person is our oldest member, though I wonder who is. I'm fairly sure that Tyrus Bachar (9) is our youngest.
ps No suggestions regarding the plumbing. Maybe the birds saw something?
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J. Werlin
climber
Cedaredge
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Jan 29, 2007 - 09:01am PT
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Hi Crimpie--
I'm a GC here in western colorado. Chollapete and Jaywood are giving you the good advice. The grout has very little to do with waterproofing!!! Around here labor and materials to tile a shower runs ~$15/sq. ft. for a first rate job, plus the cost of whatever tile you choose. I don't advise doing this yourself, except for the tearing out part. Make a lot of calls for references and be willing to wait for someone good.
Silicone is not a bad bandaid. Sometimes the leak is around the drain so goo it up there too.
Love the big smile in so many of your TR's.
-JW
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Jan 29, 2007 - 09:38am PT
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Most of the time it's a leak at the escutcheon,that's the trim piece where the valve comes through.The nipple at the head can leak too.If you want to research the tile itself you can isolate areas with poly taped up over different ones.Also the drain itself can be a problem,they don't all work the way you might think when they are set in a mortar pan.
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sling512
Trad climber
Chicago
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Jan 29, 2007 - 09:40am PT
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Crimper-
Sorry to hear of your shower woes! It brings back bad memories when my wife and I bought our 1950 Georgian in Chicago. The main bath had a tub shower but also had the evil one inch tiles. I like to call them the 'Locker Room tiles' (no offence Locker). The old couple who sold us the house hadn't used that bathroom for like 10 years and "didn't know" any issues with it. Turns out 2nd time I used it, while I had ripped out the other shower for redo, I very casually poked my finger through the tile shower wall! Locker room tile over plaster had serious water damage behind it from the slow leak over the years through the grout. Water damage wasn't just the walls, but the ceiling below and the wood all around under the tub/plumbing had mold/hardened plaster dust mud everywhere!! So... after getting my $400 back from the home inspection company, I ripped out the entire room and started over. Be weary of your leak with all that plaster around, makes the stuff very weak. And while you're in there, replace the old cast iron drain pipes too.
Good luck!!
-sling
Pictures for good measure:
House
Locker Room tile
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2007 - 10:04am PT
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Sling: Our houses look related. It's a conspiracy. :)
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sling512
Trad climber
Chicago
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Jan 29, 2007 - 10:30am PT
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Crimp, they sure do! Can't tell from your picture if you have a basement or not, but if you do, watch out for the settlement pit filling up! We have two manholes in the basement, sump pump in one, and the other was the 'mystery pit', which may or may not have been connected to sump pit. I never opened mystery pit out of fear I'd find Hoffa, and never knew what it was. (quick backstory: I'm from CA, so basements and sumps are all new territory for me). One fine spring day a foul smell wafted up from the basement and upon investigation I found out mystery pit was a settlement pit that collects all the CRAP that went down the basement sink drain over the past 56 years had filled the pit to the brim. It sent a sludgy geyser 2 feet in the air up around the cover, which was under pressure from the laundry draining into it! Oh.my.god. That crap stunk. I had to call all over Chicagoland area to find someone to come suck out the crap with a big suction hose like they suck out portapotties. $300 for 5 minutes of work. AND he dropped my flashlight right in the heart of the beast. I only felt a slight tinge of enjoyment when he went in shoulder deep to fish it out. So, moral is, check your pit before it's too late!
-sling
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Robb
Social climber
Under a Big Sky
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Jan 29, 2007 - 11:45am PT
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Crimpie
Sorry to hear about your predicament.I've done repair work on these situations for years. A lot of the advice that's been posted is good, but in these older homes it's more often than not a combination of problems rather than just one leak. My best suggestion to you is to ask around ( girlfriends are the best to ask ) & see if you can find an experienced home repair person to come & take a good look at the situation. They can often give you the full picture of the condition of the area as a whole & the extent of repairs needed.I say girlfriends are the best to ask because you want to not only have someone who's competent, but also who you can trust.I don't say this to scare you, but rather because I've seen so many cases over the years where contractors have taken advantage of female homeowners.GL! Robb
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
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Such good advice all around here. ST.com is the best! Sling, your story made me laugh out loud. Luckily, my basement is finished, no pumps, and has only one mystery area (some iron door on the stone wall). I'm afraid to open it as well. Nothing good could possibly be in there. In fact, I'm pretty certain that is where the ghosts reside.
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sling512
Trad climber
Chicago
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Jan 29, 2007 - 01:40pm PT
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Now you got ME laughing. I have the same door..... and I opened it. But only after about 1 1/2 years of wonder/worry. It's the bottom cleanout for the chimney that vents the furnace/plumbing etc. It is a scary place for sure. What caused me to venture in was the water that was seeping out of it (damn you water and basements). Turns out I have no cap on that chimney which was letting rain/snow in. Funny thing is that when I opened it there was this albino mushroom thing growing in the muck. I just looked and closed the door without breathing in. Haha. You are right, nothing good IS in there.
-sling
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jstan
climber
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Jan 29, 2007 - 03:14pm PT
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I too would weigh-in as favoring outdoor showers, with one caution. When I open my shower in JT I have to check it out for rattlesnakes before going in. Very exciting.
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telejane
climber
Portland
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Jan 29, 2007 - 05:27pm PT
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In all likelihood, the expansion joints are leaking if you have eliminated the plumbing. The alternative to silicone is "Grout caulk" which comes in sanded (for joints 1/8 inch or thicker ) ALthough it looks cool cuz you can get a color to match the grout, it generally does not stand up as well as silicone, especially if you use wierd soaps like tea tree oil. you have to carve the stuff out and replace it once a year or so. And you should try to get ALL the silicone out if you can, cuz nothing wants to stick to silicone. The other thing you should do is to incpect the entire floor: if there are lots of cracks, the whole installation could be leaking. If it's really old and the house has settled, the mortar shower pan could have cracks that are leaking if the grout leaks.
Regarding the plaster ceiling repair, hey, this is better for the upper body than going to work out at the climbing gym! Try to find a product called "Structolite" which is a pearlited gypsum plaster. You mix with water to create a sheetrock mud-like consistency. It is way stronger than sheetrock mud, plus it is lighter and easy on the shoulders. Home Depot sometimes carries it, otherwise look for a mason's supply. apply the first layer and then leave it rough or scratch it so the next layer will stick to it. Don't make it proud cuz it's harder to sand than sheetrock mud! Don't mix too much at once cuz it goes off in about 15 minutes. Good luck!
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Big
climber
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Jan 29, 2007 - 05:50pm PT
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Glad you survived your camping adventure this weekend. If you would have come to Rocktown with the rest of the StL crew, I could have given you some professional advice. For free. Now you will have to pay for it, at least with a long distance call. If you still haven't got a game plan together, you're welcome to give me a shout. I sell vinyl siding 5 dys a week. That makes me qualified right? Jr. or BB have those digits.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Jan 29, 2007 - 06:28pm PT
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You got some great comments. However, too many about silicone. Seems like these guys get silicone on the brain somehow.:) Actually, silicone is good for temporary.
I have remodelled two commplete bathrooms and I cringed when I first read your problem because it reminded me of one of mine. The shower floor I had was built in the 70's and it leaked. I determined that it was the shower floor that leaked and it was those 1 " tiles. I decided they had to go. However, under that was about 4" of concrete. If water damage was not enough, then breaking that out with a sledge hammer did the celing in below it. Then for the water tite membrane beneath the concrete was a large single piece of lead lining.
At any rate, the best thing may be to get rid of the little tiles. I think it is difficult to make it so those dont leak.
good luck
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flash5twelve
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Jan 29, 2007 - 06:31pm PT
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Am I the only one that noticed that Crimpergirl called the corner of her shower a dihedral?
Only a climber...
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Howie
Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Jan 29, 2007 - 06:39pm PT
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Turn the shower off tight.
Don't shower and let things dry out. If they do not then it is more than lightly a plumbing leak.
Don't start sealing, ripping things out until you have determined where the leak is from.
Good luck.
It is way easier climbing!
H.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
St. Looney
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2007 - 06:41pm PT
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Hello Big! I am unsure what I said to the traveling crew on Friday night when they woke me from my slumber at Exit 1 rest stop in Tennessee. I got in a lot of climbing this weekend only to come home and see this mess. I should take a photo for you guys...
Okay. You can see the area here:
And you can see where I think the two problems were (I hope were). Along the tile-meets-glass area, and where white tiles hit little evil tiles. (okay, okay, it could be cleaner)
And the mess downstairs. I already scraped the bubbled plaster away.
So, it's not an enormous mess - hence my thoughts that it's not pipe issues. I've scraped all old silicone out. Have since put in a sh*tload of silicone in its place.
Soon (when it's not climbing time), I will get to work on the ceiling and crown moulding.
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