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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Feb 23, 2018 - 09:36am PT
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teachers packin' heat? ... attention deficit begone!
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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I'm willing to bet the teachers that tried to protect their students and used their bodies in this last shooting would have liked to have been armed. How many would actually want to carry a weapon at all times would be a different story.
My suggestion, though I am not an expert, would be to train as many as want to be trained, and then place gun lockers around the campus. They could be hidden so as to not be obvious.
As was pointed out, this would not completely stop the loss of life, but if I was a teacher, I would want to option. We live in crazy times.
We must also dig into the root causes, plus most likely have some sort of ban on semi auto rifles. Though Jody doesn't agree with this, I believe that it would make it more difficult for someone intent on killing a lot of people to do that. And thats the point. None of these solutions so far put forth would completely stop these killings, but if we could slow it down, that would be worth pursuing.
Edit: Jody.. people get frustrated with you too.
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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We already have guns on campus on the person of the shooters. Its already dangerous for students.
both think that some kid would eventually use a school gun for harm rather than good.
Charles
That why I would suggest having gun lockers instead of teachers keeping them on their person.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 23, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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OK, let’s just say that by some miracle the Dems get every law passed that suits their fancy.
That isn’t gonna get but a couple of per centage points worth of the guns off the streets.
What’s their plan for actually improving safety until that magic day when all the guns are
confiscated and all the nutters are cured?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 23, 2018 - 09:58am PT
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OK, let’s just say that by some miracle the Dems get every law passed that suits their fancy.
That isn’t gonna get but a couple of per centage points worth of the guns off the streets.
What’s the plan for actually improving safety until that magic day when all the guns are
confiscated and all the nutters are cured?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:07am PT
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Charles, I don’t fantasize, except about free-soloing After Six.
WHAT’S THE PLAN?
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:07am PT
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Home situations are different from a locker at a school.
The lockers could be alarmed. They could be set so that Anyone even touching one would set it off. Maybe just at first a silent alarm to the office to keep kids from setting them off on purpose. And with cameras that would eventually deter kids from trying. . Plus they could be placed in places only teachers have access to . Some school rooms have locked closets. That type of place. It might take a teacher an extra 30 seconds to get to a gun, but then they would have them. And these things last longer then 30 seconds.
As I said, I wouldn't want to carry a gun all day, but it would be nice to know that there were guns available to get to if I needed one.
Edit: my main concern with agreeing with this idea is that it takes away from the impetus to ban semi auto rifles. I believe that we need to do both.
And we need to develop better protocols for identifying and dealing with those who are a danger for doing this kind of thing.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:10am PT
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Proposals include
various ways to increase background checks,
stop preventing research on gun violence,
stop gun show loopholes,
stop assault rifles and >10 shot magazines.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/obama-gun-proposals/index.html
ALL of which are COMPLETELY opposed and stopped by Repubs and gun nuts.
Since you ask, what's the Repub plan?
besides continuing to suck up as much NRA money and lunacy as possible?
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:13am PT
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the republican plan is to arm school staff..
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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What’s the plan for actually improving safety until that magic day when all the guns are
confiscated and all the nutters are cured?
You want me to take you seriously but you don’t have a plan? Seriously? Here’s mine:
1. Double police salaries ( and training) BUT put all management under civilian control.
2. Put real cops at schools, not wannabes.
3. Put metal detectors at all schools that automatically lock the perp inside.
Too liberal or too draconian? What’s yer kid’s life worth?
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:18am PT
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Also a nightmare thinking about getting to the guns in a crisis situation.
Better then being in the crisis and having no options but to place your body in front of your students. Every teacher who takes and passes the training could have a locker in their room.
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:22am PT
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. Put metal detectors at all schools that automatically lock the perp inside.
metal detectors and fences have been put forth. The high school that I went to had all outside hall ways. One would have to fence the entire complex. and then alarm the fence because perps would just use wire cutters. plus it would be very difficult to put a fence completely around the school because homes back up to the school grounds.
Edit: just looked at street view of my old high school. They did fence it with a wrought iron fence. But its low. Easy to jump. It would be pretty weird to have a 10 foot fence all the way around it.
Edit: hahaha.. locker.. I thought about you when I posted that.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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The top decision maker in America our president just passed the buck, “it’s your job as teachers not mine.” Let’s hope this mornings news about the armed deputy remaining outside the HS for 4 minutes while the carnage inside took place lays rest this ridiculous suggestion. Sorry Mr. President, they already have an important job, so do you and so do we as voters.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Feb 23, 2018 - 10:43am PT
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I'm not going to say anything profound. As a science teacher for 15 years I can say that the level of anxiety/ concern has been going up and up and up. I tell my students that when there is a lock down we go to the stockroom (attached to the classroom). We have shovels, hammers, scalpels, acids and bases. My classroom door remains open but locked so you just kick the door stop. The fact I have to think of these things blows my mind! But is the reality.
Those of you who think that arming a teacher is the answer are absolutely crazy. The best a teacher can do is lock the door and try to get the students to a "safe" spot. It takes more than 6 minutes to do anything with 35 students. I would do everything possible to protect my students and have thought about what that would look like. But you want to give me a gun? I have to lock up the glue sticks!
S...
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 11:00am PT
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I can appreciate your position skywalker. I have worked with school kids and can appreciate how difficult it is to get them organized and to do something.
Would a gun safe ( changed wording for locker heh heh) in a locked cabinet in your classroom really be that much more of a difficulty?
Have you thought of those teachers who were shot trying to shield their students during this last shooting? Edit: That image is part of what caused me to start considering arming school staff. Are you saying that in that situation, you still wouldn't have wanted access to a gun? With the training to use it?
Edit: Tad..Just to be clear, I am in no way for putting up those kinds of fences. I was just pointing out what would have to be done to make some of the other things that Reilly suggest effective.
Edit: and to be clear about my position on arming some school staff. In the beginning I was adamantly against it. but at this point I don't see many other solutions. I am though hesitant to agree to arming school staff without also implementing other things like banning semi auto weapons.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Feb 23, 2018 - 11:33am PT
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There is clearly no simple solution to this insanity, but making schools "gun-free zones" has always struck me as the ultimate stupidity. I wanna shoot up the place, but as I walk to the school I see that sign. Hmmmm...I gots me an AK. The sign says "Gun-free." Welp, guess I better go shoot up the mall instead. WHAT THE FU*K? I'm all for some teachers--if they're into it--or specifically trained, undercover cops to have some serious heaters. OF COURSE, anyone in that position must have some serious training. Posted boldly around the campus:
THIS IS NOT A GUN-FREE ZONE.
UNDER COVER OFFICERS ARE HEAVILY ARMED.
ANYONE SEEKING TO ATTACK THIS CAMPUS WILL
BE MET WITH DEADLY FORCE.
And any kind of comment along the lines of--Well, then the office/teacher might shoot up the place--is just so stupid as to not even be worthy of attention.
I taught at a community college for almost 30 years, and our rent-a-cops with tazers were a joke.
BAd
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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I would trust you Tad.. but I still wouldn't want teachers to go around armed. Thats why I advocate for guns safes in the rooms of the teachers who qualify.
Would you be against that?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Feb 23, 2018 - 11:43am PT
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I don't care what law you pass, it will not make a difference in our lifetime and surely won't help the kid I still have in school.
Really?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35048251
"We have an opportunity in this country not to go down the American path."
...Less than two weeks after the Port Arthur massacre, all six Australian states agreed to enact the same sweeping gun laws banning semi-automatic rifles and shotguns - weapons that can kill many people quickly.
They also put more hurdles between prospective gun owners and their weapons.
Australia has 28-day waiting periods, thorough background checks, and a requirement to present a "justifiable reason" to own a gun.
Unlike in the US, self-protection is not accepted as a justifiable reason to own a gun.
In the 21 years since the laws were passed, about one million semi-automatic weapons - roughly one third of the country's firearms - were sold back to the government and destroyed, nearly halving the number of gun-owning households in Australia.
Although the laws were designed specifically to reduce mass shootings, the rates of homicide and suicide have also come down since 1996.
Philip Alpers, a professor at Sydney School of Public Health, has done studies showing that aside from the victims of the Port Arthur shooting, 69 gun homicides were recorded in 1996 compared with 30 in 2012.
Despite the reduction in incidence though, gun violence has not disappeared in Australia.
Many outlawed firearms have been replaced with legal ones. And nearly 26,000 unregistered guns have been handed back this year in the first national amnesty since the Port Arthur killings.
But of course, it can't happen here.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Feb 23, 2018 - 11:50am PT
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John, its not that I wouldn't want to defend myself or my students. A safe for a gun? I can just imagine 23 right-47-left-36 right "click". Meanwhile an AR-15 being discharged at what 100 bullets per minute?
No disrespect but my plan is we get the F' out those windows and run! I will be the last one out!
Edit:I deleted some things that were a rant. But this whole thing hits home all too often so apologies.
S...
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John M
climber
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Feb 23, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
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I can just imagine 23 right-47-left-36 right "click". Meanwhile an AR-15 being discharged at what 100 bullets per minute?
Yep.. I have thought of that too. There are different types of guns safes. Some have electronic locks which just require codes. Others have fingerprint locks. What type of lock would have to be determined.
As for going out a window. Not all schools have windows. Mine didn't. And some are multiple stories tall.
My thinking is that If I heard gunfire or an alarm indicating an active shooter on campus, I would want access to a gun in my room. I wouldn't want to have to carry it around all day, nor would I want others to have to carry one around all day. Maybe the principle and vice principle, but even that is difficult for me to imagine. So that Is why I thought of a gun safe in the class rooms of those teachers who want one and who qualify. The responsibility would be heavy, but not being able to protect myself and my students in these crazy times is also no imaginable. I can't get the image of those teachers using their bodies to defend their students out of my mind.
I do understand the flaw with my plan is that teachers aren't always in their rooms. Perhaps between classes the principle and the vice principle would have to be out of the office and armed with concealed carry. But imagine the training required for that. the principle couldn't wade in to stop a fight for fear of a student getting hold of the gun. I know that police officers do it in certain situations, but they have more training and go on patrol with a fully trained officer at the beginning of their career.
So then an armed and carrying teacher/principle has to be trained how to break up a fight and not lose their weapon? I wonder if those who advocate concealed carry have thought of that? This is why I believe the gun safe would be better for on campus. Otherwise we are going to need fully trained police officers on campus. Thats going to cost a chunk of change. And yes.. I do think about cost.
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