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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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ALL HAIL THE PARROT WHISPERER AND HER IMPORTANT WORK!
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floydd
Trad climber
ruin
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Dec 10, 2017 - 06:07am PT
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people like wilmot continue to validate and
promote the sick culture where women
are assaulted physically, suppressed professionally,
and disrespected in general.
the prevalent culture in america has been, and now continues to be
male dominance over the female.
it's bullsh#t. the grace, prowess, intelligence and beauty that
many women embody is a cultural treasure that all men need to
respect, gather and learn from. then america could stand up a little straighter.
of course any gender can rape; stupid argument, little willy.
the worst aspect of american culture is fearful, ignorant, and greedy white guys like yourself. they suffer from a dearth of substance (courage, kindness, compassion, and humility,) thus they reach beyond themselves and validate their existence through material accessories.
your only hope, wilmot, is to find a mistakenly submissive girl that is burdened with the baggage of an abusive father and thus suffers a damaged esteem.
i'm teaching my daughters to identify your kind. you're easy to spot: you've NOTHING in the eyes, your soul is broke down and thus your spirit is disgustingly sallow.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 10, 2017 - 06:22am PT
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Kevin...if a woman considers it sexual harassment it IS sexual harassment. The word "no" is in everyone's vocabulary.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 10, 2017 - 06:33am PT
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Lying is another matter and, unfortunately, with the example of the creature in the White House it's in vogue right now.
Off to some crack climbing!
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c wilmot
climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 06:42am PT
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Floydd - that is some of the most deranged and hateful nonsense I have ever read. You need help bud
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floydd
Trad climber
ruin
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Dec 10, 2017 - 06:55am PT
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well said, from a cheap, white, made-in-america male.
your message, though, is sleight.
just shooting words from your gob gives them no flight.
your man trump does the same shite;
and so many of us see right through your (an his) decorated veil.
i suggest that you take your song to another stage.
this audience, whom is comprised mostly of thick-charactered men and WOMEN, easily deflects your worthless messages of ignorance and intimidation.
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c wilmot
climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 06:58am PT
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More delusions...floydd-I don't support trump or any other politician.its just theatre. Your assumptions about me are laughably insane. You should really tone down the random hate that's bordering on psychosis...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 07:00am PT
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I saw the link to the article featuring Callie's words on my FB feed, and when someone made a comment about "emails she might receive," meaning hate mail, her response was that there had been only four in all the time since she was first put in the public spotlight. It seemed, by the way she wrote it, that the number of four made up an extremely small percentage of communications she had received.
Let's hope the ST thread doesn't up the percentage much. She is a very intelligent and experienced professor who does her research. She's not making things up.
As for false accusations - I think this is best managed as a separate discussion to be had, and one that will probably gain traction if the #MeToo campaign continues. As it should!
I wouldn't know where that sort of a campaign might start, but perhaps it could begin by educating our children on recognizing signs of a person prone to cra-cra(for lack of a better word) and extricating themselves safely from the relationship. Many men have had to do that - just as many women who have found themself in a relationship with a domineering or abusive person have had to save themself; hopefully early enough on so as not to suffer consequences.
I know that for myself, when I was a dog walker in NYC, I was EXTREMELY careful when in the presence of children. They will often, in a playground area, come running up unattended by their steward, to play with puppy. That made me uncomfortable - because I know it was remotely possible that I could have somehow become entangled if one of those children had been abused by a stranger. Questions about where the child had been, whom interacted with..... I know - a really, really small chance that would happen and a finger pointed at me(although I WAS questioned by detectives once when a building in which I had a client and had walked the dog on a weekend, which was out of the ordinary as I was a weekday walker for her), was burglarized.
But I knew, it WAS a potentially vulnerable thing to do - be around youngsters unsupervised. And so I took actions to NOT BE IN THAT POSITION. I would ask look around to see if there was a mom or dad or sitter in the area and make eye contact, Wait for their acknowledgement that they were aware about the kids, wave back and ask "Is it okay for your little one(s) to play with puppy?" No supervising person in the area? Sorry, children, I am out of there fast. "Puppy needs to get back home. Have a nice day!" and leave.
I know that scenario is different than a man and his partners, associates, coworkers, and such, but perhaps people DO need to begin discussions as to how to insulate themselves from vulnerable situations. Doors left open in office discussions, an assistant present when having disciplinary conversations with a subordinate, groups for after work cool-down drinks and LEAVING BEFORE it comes down to just oneself with another person, landlord doesn't show up unannounced(which is against the laws in at least NYC). Perhaps landlord needs to think further about HOW to protect themself and the building handymen/women since they could potentially be vulnerable.
I know that in this forum there have been times when guys have written "but the sex with the crazy ones is sublime." Well......just like I have a rule that if a man EVER lays a hand on my in a physically aggressive way, it's over, a guy who wants to live to an old age unmolested by false accusations, maybe they ought to think about the risk they put themself at when engaging with people they can see might be potentially problematic. I know...that seems like asking a lot. "Why should I have to" one might ask. In response to that, I would say that there is QUITE an extensive list of behaviors/actions I take or avoid in order to keep myself out of potentially problematic situations. On a daily basis. As do many women. Is it foolproof? No of course not. But if the issue is one you are concerned with, it's one you ought to address.
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floydd
Trad climber
ruin
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Dec 10, 2017 - 07:26am PT
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kevin the culture of which i speak is below the surface of america.
you cite sports and construction work as tangible evidence countering sexism.
i grew up in a house where my dad filled out my moms voter pamplets. her role was assigned in my family. she did the domestic duties. her dreams and aspirations came second to her assignment. she knew better than to pursue greater horizons.
she existed beneath a pervasive fear of voicing her opinion. in my dad's opinion, her greatest strength was her humility and submission.
then i saw it in the work place. i work in construction, too. but i'm on the engineering end, not the field. the office ethos was dominated by the zipper-in-fronts. women pull open drawers and closed them according to instruction. they brought us pastries and coffee. some of them broke through the societal hymen, but by and large their gender was under-represented in the most responsible roles.
on and on i could go, the evidence is everywhere and gross. at least to those whom look with critical inspection and a willingness to grow.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 07:49am PT
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Mama told me not to come
She said
That ain't no way to have fun, son
on the other hand
Mama tried (and that's half of the battle right there, eh)
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Dec 10, 2017 - 09:24am PT
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Rape and sexual abuse is not a subject I am comfortable with; it is the most heinous crime one can perpetrate on another.
I kinda have to agree with Warbler in that women have made huge strides in the work force, at least from my perspective. My former employer actively pursued diversity, not just lip service. In a span of about 5 years the number of minority and female management rose dramatically. I think the company is better for it
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John M
climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 09:47am PT
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Translation: Doesn't get laid, blames women.
Come on man.. you don't need to resort to that. This is an important conversation. Lets at least keep it civil.
Congrats Callie.. Good job!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 10:16am PT
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So rape has some pretty specific legal definitions. What are the stats for men getting convicted for raping someone vs. women being convicted likewise.
Oh yeah, and of course, men just do not report with the same freequency [sic].
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Dec 10, 2017 - 10:47am PT
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A huge bump for Callie, and the #MeeToo action!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 10, 2017 - 10:52am PT
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I can't think of a more knowledgable, intelligent and compelling person to take up the cause of women and give voice to those who have suffered from the injustices of our cultural norms, in this case women abused by men.
These cultural norms allowed men, powerful not only physically but also economically and politically, to coerce women into doing things they didn't want to do for the quid pro quo it offered, in all aspects of our culture. In the most horrific cases this was a matter of life or death for the women.
That these particular cultural norms are no longer acceptable will make the resulting culture better, in my opinion, even if at the expense of those who gained from them, and who are reluctant to see the changes.
As all things dealing with societal practice, we all have a voice in the changes, and we all get to choose what sort of society we wish to live in, and to pass on to our kids.
Props to Callie for her commitment to her convictions and her choice to be actively involved for those changes she believes are important.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Dec 10, 2017 - 11:02am PT
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I'm with Ed et al. on this. I think we're finally seeing a societal change with regards to how women are treated. Of course, it's long past due. I think that Stanford creep can't get enough misery. That photo should help.
Jim D., however, said something that is a little scary if you just think about it a little--even if I do agree in broad principle--that if a woman thinks it's sexual harassment, then it is. Having worked and dealt with some pretty unstable sorts--paranoid, man-hating, etc.--this kind of generalized thinking is WAY dangerous. We do need some sort of standard to evaluate the degree and kind of problem we're dealing with. The idea of college campus tribunals adjudicating rape and assault cases horrifies me, for example. Due process is critical!
Anyway, props and respect to Crimpie!
BAd
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c wilmot
climber
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Dec 10, 2017 - 11:11am PT
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Rape and sexual assault have been cultural norms?
I am sorry but that is nonsense
You are falling into the politicians trap of blaming society collectively for a problem that has everything to do with individual behavior. This is done when they themselves are found to be at blame- suddenly it's a"cultural" thing... they even have the gall to demand that they receive sexual harrassement training-as though they have been unaware of what constitutes ethical behavior
all of these people knew full well their behavior was wrong and frankly- criminal
But they commit these offenses anyway,because- they don't care . Which is why they acted in such a manner until they were forced to stop. And often-even that is it enough as Anthony Wiener has shown.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 10, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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Rape and sexual assault have been cultural norms?
I am sorry but that is nonsense
That is your opinion based on your experiences, there are many people I know who have had different experiences than you, and have very different opinions.
Removing the discussion from the realm of ipse dixit to research is something that Callie has been involved in during her career. Having had discussions with her about her work (and reading some of her papers) were within the realm of good science and scholarship. That is usually the base I'm most comfortable operating from, and that also informs opinion and puts one's experience in context.
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Dec 10, 2017 - 11:23am PT
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