Building a (decent) lifestyle around climbing

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Roger Breedlove

climber

Cleveland Heights, Ohio

Nov 14, 2017 - 09:55am PT

Jody's post brings to mind the (paraphrased) joke:

"Don't finish school, become world famous and make a good living. If you find that you don't become world famous and don't make a good living, don't not finish school."

Maybe I should introduce you to base rate probabilities.

Skrer, I don't have any advice about how to build a life around climbing--I just walked away and started a non-climbing life at age 30, in 1980. By 1982 I had a graduate degree, a new baby, a suit, a non-beater car and a mortgage, and paid cancellation fees on flights and restocking fees on equipment purchased to climb the Mooses' Tooth. However, I pretty much agree with all of the comments above, but I would note that Supertopo is a self-selected subset of climbers (albeit stellar, successful and articulate). If you can, I think you should counter balance these views with views from folks who don't post on ST.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 14, 2017 - 10:30am PT

Jody, nice exceptions that prove the rule that most people need the structure and imposed discipline of a formal education, not to mention the associated contacts. Yes, my plumber makes bank (without getting his hands dirty) but not compared to my nephew’s childhood mate who retired at 28 after writing some yugely successful software.

The climbing world is also replete with professionals and academics who are standouts in their work and climbing. John Gill, Tom Cochrane, George Lowe, and our esteemed Crimpergirl come to mind.

If you think you have to climb a lot to be good then maybe yer not very good and likely to stay that way.

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Nov 14, 2017 - 12:23pm PT

I am mid-40s, divorced after a decade plus of marriage, remarried and very happy with that person after 9 years, raising two teenage kids, and I've had phases of my career that are very demanding and successful and phases that are laid back. Climbing has not been as big a chunk of my life as I would like so far, but I'm on track to have that grow a lot.

My input:

1. The person you choose to spend your life with is the single most important thing that affects the quality of life in all aspects: it affects your hobbies, your career choices and trajectory, your friends, your state of mind in relation to those things, your attitude toward yourself, what sort of life you will have at the point you have kids if you choose that path, your daily living environment, etc.

2. If I had to choose between "a wife who climbs" and "a wife who is emotionally mature, is compatible with how I am tuned to give and receive love, and is a good fit for the other aspects of my life" I would choose the latter. But I would seek both (and I am lucky that I have found it!)

3. In order to do a good job of #1 (and not just gamble and hope to get lucky), you have to have experience of yourself in a serious relationship, to know yourself and someone else intimately, to know how you expect to give and receive love (which will evolve and perhaps become more sophisticated as you gain maturity), to know where your limits are in a relationship- what are your walk away issues, to have the wisdom to see a bigger picture and not be petty with little stuff so you can keep on appreciating the good you have without letting resentments build up).... I think all of those things need to be lived (and probably failed at a few times while you reflect on it) before you can really grasp it. Reading a book or heeding advice is just a starting point. Also, be wary of the rebound, where you feel wise after learning mistakes in a first relationship and then go with an opposite person where a whole new set of challenges appear. So the key point is- go ahead and live life, be in committed relationships, but be wary of signing on for life or having children before you understand what that entails. And protect against having unplanned children- you don't have the perspective to understand how big the cost can be for some momentary pleasure. Kids are intrinsically magical and wonderful joys, and it is such a beautiful phase of life to enjoy in the right circumstances, but it can lead to serious heartache when in the wrong circumstances. And be open about your thoughts and hopes and fears and feelings, which might expose you to more pain but also more joy and more likelihood of finding a great match for you.

==> Starting as you are by building a "climbing lifestyle" is a great way to begin finding a compatible life partner. You will be searching among people who already like to spend their time doing what you enjoy, living in the place you want to live, etc., and then you won't have to choose between "doing what you love" and "being with whom you love". All that other stuff I talked about matters more in the long run though. Also be wary that anyone you meet in college might be pushed to relocate elsewhere to honor their career aspirations. So take that into account again before making lifeong commitments.

4. Career: find something you enjoy doing, and that many people consider valuable and are willing to pay you to do! You say you enjoy engineering- a fine choice. Cultivate your passion for it, which will help your motivation to put in the effort to keep yourself employable and earning a decent income. This is part of the equation of living a lifestyle that lets you keep playing throughout your life while also tasting material pleasures, having a family, medical insurance in USA, etc.

5. Everything people already said about living near climbing and hanging out with climber people... it boils down to building your safety net and environment that reinforces the identity and lifestyle you want for yourself.

johntp

Trad climber

socal

Nov 14, 2017 - 04:08pm PT

1. The person you choose to spend your life with is the single most important thing that affects the quality of life in all aspects: it affects your hobbies, your career choices and trajectory, your friends, your state of mind in relation to those things, your attitude toward yourself, what sort of life you will have at the point you have kids if you choose that path, your daily living environment, etc.

Excellent point. Spent 14 years with the wrong person. Biggest waste of time, emotion and money ever. Should have broken it off much earlier, but blind love got in the way.

Trad climber

Calgary

Nov 14, 2017 - 04:19pm PT

Henry Kendall managed to do a lot of great climbing and also won the Nobel Prize in Physics.
My friend Sean has a PHD in Astrophysics, is the director of a radio astronomy observatory
and used to be one of the best all round climbers in Canada. Also managed to lead a 5.13 after his 50th birthday but was more proud of onsighting 12c. He lives near Skaha and would frequently climb in the morning and show up to work around 10 or 11 AM. So you can get in a ton of great climbing and still have a good career.
Another friend has made a great career as a professor. He was the first person to get a PHD in computer animation then spent 28 days hanging off the side of Cerro Torre and never finished their new route, They ran out of food. Many of Blob's past graduate students were climbers. He has done tons of climbing.
The academic and research life has lots of advantages but is hard to break into. All of these guys are really smart.

Contractor

Boulder climber

Nov 14, 2017 - 04:42pm PT

Hey, try contracting! In the Northern hemisphere you'll rotate counterclockwise as you travel down to the inevitability of being a Walmart Greeter.

No, seriously...do things well, consider those around you, don't complain, be a team player, lead by example- the rest will take care of itself.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Nov 14, 2017 - 05:04pm PT

One climber I met was an engineer. I think he was paid to evaluate/certify building plans, something like that. He had a sweet deal: So long as he could get a signal, he could download plans, evaluate, certify or not, send back with notes, whatever. That was his job. Completely portable and flexible. When I met him, he was hanging out in the back of his truck with a laptop open and working. His wife was a contract nurse: Three months on, three months off. There was ALWAYS more work. He could spend a few hours working in the truck or at a cafe, whatever, then hit the crags. Pretty schweet.

BAd

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Nov 14, 2017 - 05:16pm PT

"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans."

John Lennon

"The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

Adopted from a poem by Robert Burns

nah000

climber

now/here

Nov 14, 2017 - 09:14pm PT

here’s two, maybe even three, bits based in what i wish someone might have told me 20 years ago [along with the unlikely wish that i’d actually been able to listen to them - ha!]:

you’re going to make mistakes along the road to wherever you think you are trying to head.

sometimes the mistake can even be where you think you should head.

ie. don’t get too caught up in the big picture shIt. stay aware of it and move towards it while staying open to the possibility that you may be headed in 180 degrees the wrong direction at times.

focus on following your heart as it evolves and the big picture trajectory will tend towards taking care of itself.

ie. the external details of the decisions you make are only equally as important as your listening to your own internal intuitions.

be curious and enjoy the ride you’re interested in experiencing and wherever you end up will have been worthwhile...

all the best.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 14, 2017 - 09:29pm PT

focus on following your heart as it evolves and the big picture trajectory will tend towards taking care of itself.

That hackneyed sentiment was more viable in days past. These days it
should be qualified with the addendum: if you think you'll like living
in a single-wide in E Bumphuk when yer 70. It's getting more dog eat dog
out there and those that think the gubmint will provide for them in their
dotage are delusional.

duncan

climber

London, UK

Nov 15, 2017 - 03:01am PT

NutAgain! summary resonates with me.

To expand on point 4: I don't think there are 'right' or 'wrong' careers for climbers. The main thing is to be good at what you do and committed to your job when you're working. You will get a lot more slack (possibly not the best metaphor in this context!) and opportunities for working flexibly. Doing a good job well can be very fulfilling and is probably of some benefit to the greater good as well.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber

Nov 15, 2017 - 04:07am PT

What is your current definition of "decent" as it pertains to life?

Byran

climber

Half Dome Village

Nov 15, 2017 - 04:36am PT

With current knowledge, what would you do in retrospect to create the best work/climbing balance and overall sustainable lifestyle.

When I was 18 I was basically in the same position as you: freshman in college, just started climbing and loved it, didn't know what to do for a career. If I could do it over, I would immediately drop out and get a job in Yosemite. Instead I finished school, got a degree I'll never use, and then got a job in Yosemite. I don't recommend going to college unless you're really ready to commit to a particular career. But everyone is different and it's hard to know what your future self is going to want out of life.

I'm 30 now BTW, and I think a lot of the other members on here are a lot older than that. I find that older folks tend to have a much stronger opinion about the universal importance of college compared to our generation. Make of that what you will.

Off White

climber

Tenino, WA

Nov 15, 2017 - 09:04am PT

There's as much good advice in this thread as you'll get from any self help book, the elder skewed demographic on the Taco has seen a lot of water under the bridge and followed many paths. I pretty much agree with most of it, but disagree with Jody's assertion that any education that isn't vocational in nature is a waste of time. Developing critical thinking skills, learning to research, broadening your experience through literature, and internalizing the notion that you can learn to do anything are valuable results of a liberal arts education that will enrich your life, regardless of what you do for a living. Don't sneer at the value of an intellectual inner life, if nothing else it makes you a more interesting person.

red'sea

Trad climber

lexington

Nov 15, 2017 - 09:47am PT

oh. you've the mentality.

that is systemic.
you are a thoroughbred dirtbag.

so, regardless of the environmental vehicle that surrounds you (job or living your vehicle; a million bucks or fifty cents,)
you probably will never stray from destitute.

you can manage your lifestyle.
go ahead and try.

everything will come undone
during its remodel.

so chaos and structure will fornicate
in your heart.

will be borne: your life.

work and money lubricate the pitch.

like sweat and blood.
keep your focus, use your feet.

stand up.

the next hold might be a beautiful person's heart.

so you grab it; make children.

everyone thinks children impede your stride.
not true.

they resound your genetics.

they smile back at you.
they challenge you.

but you are you. and from what i read,
you are stout, stubborn, and committed upon folly.

the children, if you 'accidentally' make them, adorn
your journey.

believe me.

for i have drug myself through this existence, uphill all
the way; and i've nothing but good things to say.

JeromeG

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 15, 2017 - 09:56am PT

Here's another way worth thinking about:

At some point while you're young go out and do the big expedition(s)/year(s) long trip or whatever. You'll remember it forever.

Get a good job making as much money as you can in whatever field you love. Time really does go by quickly and it's a hell of a thing to have a good job and a house, as boring as that might sound.

If you think you'll ever want children, have them while you're in your twenties or early thirties. If you wait until your late thirties you'll find them a lot more tiring and - Nature being unkind - women over the age of about 30-35 statistically have greater issues with pregnancy and their children are more likely to have birth defects. Probably gonna get flamed for that but it's just true.

Do whatever you do as well as you can do it. Chances are that few of us are going to make it big as climbers but we individually get as much out of doing our favorite routes as any professional. Climb for yourself but remember that you will get old and will need a roof and food. You'll probably wake up one morning to the news that you're going to be a parent. Try to make it all work!

If the 40 year-old me told all of this to the 20 year-old me that guy would've laughed it off. Still.

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Nov 15, 2017 - 10:00am PT

Become a nurse or a fireman.

red'sea

Trad climber

lexington

Nov 15, 2017 - 10:17am PT

do this.

go down to the local thrift store.
buy the cheapest working radio
you can find. make sure that it
is off brand. like, Lennox, or something.

it's ok if it has a broken antenna. just don't cut
yourself on its severed edge (extremely high unit-pressure: thats pounds per square inch)

now plug it. on a cloudy and / or rainy day.

spin the knob until you find some classical music.

all college towns have a public radio station.

once the reception is optimized. stand back and contemplate.

mentally entertain big thoughts; specifically in regards to
your career. and life paths. etc.

you will notice that you create sonic disturbance with each thought.

the cheap radio will go in and out of tune as you
churn mind-butter.

the thoughts and plans and ideas that send beethove into irrefutible wavelengths, avoid.

the others; the warrior thoughts. the ones that harmonize with ludwig,
employ. they will deliver you where you ought to be.