Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 04:05pm PT
|
There's guy on the Internet, a weight training guy who claims he has helped 10,000 get over back problems. He had some photos showing that yoga, stretching, and pilates do not increase the density of the muscle fibers. He says he encounters lots of people who do those sorts of things, but still have problems. He says you need progressive resistance. I have experimented with it, and find that weights are the way to get over back problems. You just have to start slow and easy. Of course, there are many different sorts of problems, but his perspective helped me.
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 06:17pm PT
|
I know you ruled it out but swimming probably is the best option for staying active.
Depending on your exact problem, muscle relaxers might help.
Heating pads, bong hits, and alcohol are the dirt bag version.
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 06:29pm PT
|
Dig ditches, dig holes, do hard manual labor is the only cure .....
On a par with his knowledgeable posts on the Mind thread. Ignore.
As Norton suggests, get MRIs and X-rays, and consult a spinal surgeon (counsel against his/her PA). You'll probably have to wait several months to get in. But even then it may not be clear where the problem lies. You can have a disastrous lower spine and still be relatively symptom-free. I speak from experience. I now do pull-ups pain-free, but simple push-ups cause problems. Good luck.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 06:46pm PT
|
BAd, don't you need a special license for that rig?
Hi tech rollin' junk show!
Severe back pain is ALWAYS helped by digging ditches! LOL!
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
|
I go through cycles of back pain from a overuse injury incurred about 10 years ago (or maybe a bit more).
From time-to-time I do things that really aggravate it, though what "it" is isn't known, the MRI didn't reveal anything specific. After I realized that crouching over the handlebars of a road bike while cranking hard was a trigger I had to find something else to do.
That is walking, mostly, and also riding my Elliptigo. I think the benefits of those two exercises are that they stabilizing muscles are involved being fully weight bearing in a "natural" way.
Yoga helped in a similar way, helping build up a whole lot of muscles that were neglected by a focus on just a few activities (mostly climbing).
When I had aggravated my back I eventually learned (the hard way) that letting it heal first then going back to activities was the quickest road to recovery. In particular, there was a 6 month period of profound back pain which I caused by not letting it heal. This was sciatica bad enough that it interfered with my bowl movements (which basically weren't happening because of the nerve impingement).
So now when I get that well known feeling of over doing it, I just stop activity until the back is recovered again. Walking is ok for me, but just taking it easy and letting whatever happened stop happening.
I know it's hard for active people to do that, but since I have been, the down periods have been a lot shorter, and I'm usually back to my activities much quicker.
I also replaced mega-doses of Ibu with icing on the injured location... works better I think (for me) then the 2400 mg/day load I was taking during the nadir of that long period...
|
|
Hubbard
climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 07:55pm PT
|
I'm with the duck on this one: dig holes. My job as a tree service requires digging out stumps from time to time. I have back problems as well once in a while. I have bills to pay too so that means sometimes I have to do slave level work when I think I should just rest. Against all odds, every time I have been forced to dig, it has turned out well. Your problem could be different.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2017 - 08:09pm PT
|
I at first thought that I could not say anything helpful, but still felt a lot of sympathy.
My Dad was once told by his doctor, "Your back is a disaster zone." But Dad lived pretty happily to 92.
One of my jobs was in the Department of Anesthesiology at the University of Washington. I learned how debilitating chronic pain can be and how hard it is to find effective remedies.
The docs at UW talked about this guy John Bonica, who had as a doctor asked himself why pain management was not a medical specialty. He made it into one.
Maybe have a look at his book, The Management of Pain.
He knew what he was talking about.
What many do not know is that John suffered terribly from his own chronic pains. Too many years of wrestling led to arthritic changes in his spine and major joints; he had four spine operations and countless hip and shoulder procedures. He probably had more nerve blocks and trigger-point injections than anyone else on the planet.
http://www.iasp-pain.org/JohnBonica
And he had an interesting (or you could say difficult) life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonica
I wonder if the water aversion should be fixed? Swimming offered relief to Bonica.
I also dislike water, but don't have muck back pain, either.
Best wishes.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 07:29am PT
|
MH2, Small World Dept note: my bro-in-law worked at the UW Pain Clinic for years.
He retired yesterday! Go Huskies! :-)
|
|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 09:38am PT
|
SWIM
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 10:54am PT
|
I have sciatica..Lake Kayaking for some reason seems to alleviate the pain..Is it from using the core , steering the boat with the hips and torquing the stomach on each paddle stroke...? Riding up steep grades out of the saddle on my road bike also helps...My back issues would probably vanish if i had more time to ride and kayak...
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 11:13am PT
|
Reilly... How's your back after 4 years of spearing receivers...?
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 11:42am PT
|
When somebody says they have back pain and somebody else offers advice:
It is sort of like saying my car has a problem and people offering advice without knowing anything more than that "it has a problem".
There are lots of ways for a back to go wrong.
When I"m having back problems, which is most of the time, anymore. It is very sensitive to posture. Contorting around in some Yoga pose is the last thing I want to do. But if your back is otherwise doing ok, I could see that Yoga could help develop and keep muscles in shape.
Keeping good posture (both sitting and standing) can go a long ways also.
|
|
F
climber
away from the ground
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 12:05pm PT
|
Sex marathons always seem to make my nerve pain diminish...
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2017 - 12:33pm PT
|
Go to Lembert Dome, and slide down the left Water Crack(facing out of course).
Don't know if it will help, but it will take your mind off the pain, and you will have lots of fun. Werner can probably help you on that one.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Jul 30, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
|
Hi,
I'm certified to teach Pilates, so I have a bias and will second Frumy's advice. BUT,
You must find a Pilates teacher who, like myself, studied at a high level including work with physical therapists. It is very important that your Pilates teacher has at least the basic knowledge to work with people, like yourself, who have "special conditions." This person will have a basic base of knowledge to be able to communicate with your doctor about your specific issue.
One way to test a teacher is to tell her/him that you have a bulging disc, posterior, lumbar spine (even if this is not the case,) and ask about your program. You should get an answer along the lines of "Okay, we'll need to avoid any exercises in spinal flexion until you're stronger. This will take some time." If you don't get an answer along this line it's time to go.
You've heard about abdominal support of your spine, and core strength. Pilates defines core as the as the direct muscular connection from your inner thighs, between your knees, up through your pelvic floor, through you INNER abdominals to your diaphragm and the base of your rib cage. This is the muscular connection which lengthens and supports your spine, not your "six pack."
Do not do sit ups or crunches ever once for the rest of your life.
Edit. Mention was made above about Yoga contortions. Any Yoga teacher who understands your individual situation should never lead you into any "contortions." Of course, like Pilates, this means private sessions with the right teacher.
|
|
duncan
climber
London, UK
|
|
|
Jul 31, 2017 - 02:49am PT
|
Commiserations! Severe back pain can be depressing, disabling, and frustrating when there are so many conflicting messages.
I've been studying back pain for the past 50 years, and if anyone says they know where back pain comes from, they're full of sh#t.
Alf Nachemson (Founding Editor of Spine)
Not picking out any individual here but most of the diagnostic suggestions above are inaccurate and unhelpful. Disc bulges don’t cause back pain, they are normal age-related changes like grey hair and wrinkles, very common in people without back pain. True nerve entrapment is unusual and usually indicated by leg pins and needles or numbness.
LS didn't ask for a diagnosis so it's funny how many folk insist on offering one! These pseudo-diagnoses are often unhelpful because they usually create a picture of a weak and failing back. This mental image is highly disabling for many people - often more disabling than the pain itself.
An MRI is useful in two instances: if a dangerous pathology is suspected (as in locker’s post) or if contemplating back surgery for apparently nerve-related symptoms. Neither are suggested by what LS has said, but only an MD can confirm this. An MRI is unlikely to diagnose back pain because - as Prof. Nachemson eloquently put it - most back pain cannot be diagnosed.
LS, your instinct to ask for activities to try is a good one and you've had lots of great suggestions. What is interesting is how varied they are: stretch/don’t stretch, relax the muscles/strengthen the muscles, invert/don’t invert, Pilates helped/Pilates didn’t help, do resistance training (or dig holes)/heavy loads are bad for you. Take-home message: almost any activity is good for someone. The best type of physical activity is the one that works for you, this might include stomach crunches or digging holes. Nothing is prohibited if it helps you. Try different stuff, gently to start with, your body will let you know if it's the right or wrong for you, and you're unlikely to do yourself any harm.
What works for me:
Short term, during an acute episode: two days rest with prescription and non-prescription medication and ice packs. I used to rest longer but gradually realised I recovered better if I got going faster. Then ease back into activity and lay off the meds. pretty quickly. Best activity for me is easy climbing (really!), even if it hurts a bit to start, especially if it is somewhere nice. Something about focusing elsewhere whilst moving in a meaningful way?
Long-term prevention: I’ve been a lot more resilient since following a regular bodyweight training programme. This has bits of gymnastics and bits of Pilates in it. The main thing is to be consistent, I need to exercise two or three times a week and I notice the difference when I let this slip, which of course I do because I’m human. Better management of life's psychological stresses is a work-in-progress: it’s usually emotional factors that trigger my flare-ups. It’s worth thinking beyond the usual physical suspects - like sitting and lifting - when trying to identity what tips the balance the wrong way.
Disclosure: I suffer from intermittent back pain (like 75% of the world) and leg pain and pins and needles. Most of the time I manage it and it doesn't stop me doing what I want to do. I’m a pain management PT and professor and do research in this area.
|
|
rincon
climber
Coarsegold
|
|
|
Jul 31, 2017 - 07:16am PT
|
You have a "serious aversion to water activities"?
Sad.
You are missing out!
|
|
ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2017 - 08:29am PT
|
Something about focusing elsewhere whilst moving in a meaningful way
Tried that this weekend and it was great! Morale can be a mental challenge for me.
Moving in a meaningful way, that's the kicker. I have a daily/weekly pattern of exercise to keep me from falling apart on approaches. It's worked, and has the bonus of mitigating the side effects of my raging food addiction. But none of the activities are possible with my, so I'm researching alternatives.
Bodyweight exercises have always appealed to my time management and budget. That said, they don't build cardio like...well...cardio. And I need that cardio. Without it, my food addiction starts contributing to my back pain (it kinda already has).
Still trying things out. So far it looks like long walks are in my future. But as the days get shorter, I need to find things that move muscles in meaningful way, remind my heart and lungs how to kick into gear, and doesn't aggravate my back. Alas, my former alternate activity of talus hopping is no longer an option.
Might as well ask for a new back. ;)
Thanks for all the suggestions, and please keep them coming. (I have an app for info sifting)
:)!
Cheers
LS
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
|
Jul 31, 2017 - 08:48am PT
|
Look up Active Isolated Stretching. I work with a population with LBP and some of the flexibility programs for lumbar and thoracic work well. If you don't mind me asking, what is your diagnosis? That in itself should guide your exercise plan as to precautions/contraindications. Many times LBP can be a result of thoracic immobility which creeps down and involves the low back, obliques, glutes and hips. Good luck with getting relief....keep moving though.
Peace
|
|
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
|
Jul 31, 2017 - 09:03am PT
|
Whoa, food addiction can definitely suck. Or maybe it's the camera.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!