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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2017 - 09:47am PT
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No one has been able to put a name on these people. I suspect the Pech which migrated north from South America. Certain trees around sites are only known from South America/Panama. That's just my theory.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 24, 2017 - 11:04am PT
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Is this the trip where your DeLorme device malfunctioned and sent out a string of distress calls? If so it might not be too hard for inquiring minds to find out where you went.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 24, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
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Seriously, you have to be careful about picking up pot shards or any archeology stuff on public land. Federal Law is pretty serious, and you don't want the wrath of a Federal Prosecutor to descend on you. They do prosecute these infractions.
I have found pots and other stuff way out in the middle of the Sonoran Desert, dozens of miles from water or a road. When I find something like this, I try to take a GPS fix, or if I don't have one, make a precise mark on a map, and take photos, all of which I share with the local office when I get out. I don't touch a thing.
They are rarely enthused, but at least I am doing the right thing.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2017 - 05:25pm PT
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Ksolem, yes it is. I am not worried about the people who received the false SOS.
This area is very remote and difficult to access, I had to guide a indigenous local for 6 days to show show/reach it.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 24, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
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When I find something
I throw it in to nearby bush, so no one will EVER find it
I call it the Stahl Bro. Policy
because we all know that the next (or the next) human will pick it up and put it in his/her pocket
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Apr 24, 2017 - 08:08pm PT
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I was working on a series of rock art sites years ago, mapping and photographing a whole series of clifftop petroglyphs, during days of rain. My tent was perched between two Hopewell mounds on the cliff tops. I woke one Sunday morning and looked out at a huge mud-earth-rock slide just off to one side. Jumbled in the mud was a collection of 2000 year-old pottery, shards, and some small effigy figures. I photographed it all, made drawings, wrote pages of descriptions in my field journal, and left to go back to campus in a few days, reporting the site to the state museum and state archaeologist. I told no one else.
After the state archaeologist had visited the site, he called me and gently chastised me for not salvaging and storing the larger vessels. But nothing was taken. Everything I had photographed was still there. Sometimes, there's just no pleasing everyone. So, guided by your integrity, please yourself. Sketch, photograph, video, and do drawings. Write up descriptions. Once things are disturbed, learning from the site will diminish as evidence is sorted and stored away. So keep good records, too.
And remember that this site we are discussing -- and its artifacts--are owned by the people of Honduras. It is their heritage.
ff
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 24, 2017 - 10:19pm PT
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Yes. Document all you can before it is looted. Even this thread could have started a gold rush somewhere. This site is very well accessed by search engines.
You might even consider deleting this thread before it is around too long.
Find some academics you trust who also have good funding. Sounds like it would cost huge amounts to secure and study the site.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 24, 2017 - 10:42pm PT
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I'm not exactly sure what you are seeking with this thread?
It seems like an announcement, more than anything.
For those who doubt the power of looking at things how they lie, I strongly recommend the book "The Man From the Cave", by Colin Fletcher. Out of print, but available, probably in most libraries. An amazing story of investigation.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Apr 25, 2017 - 07:15am PT
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Q- Ball,
It depends upon whether it seems important to you, and just how important. You’ve neglected to tell us just how important the finding seems to you.
I’ve had some students engaged in a social entrepreneurship program at Santa Clara University when I taught there. Some got involved, travelled to a third world country to help people, had a great experience, and then came back to finish college and go on to grad school (often using the experience to get the school they wanted). Others moved to the country they worked in and stayed.
You can do the same. Pack your bags and move there. Dig in. Engagement in any project that is deeply meaningful will reward you and others in more ways than you could count.
But, you know, . . . you gotta believe.
I mean, that’s the real question, isn’t it?
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Apr 25, 2017 - 07:17am PT
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Yes, and almost anything written by another Colin—Colin Renfrew—will help to guide anyone who discovers an archaeological site.
It seems that almost anywhere we stand today—as a human exploring our Earth—we are standing in the footprints of those who lived here before us. Taking a bit of time to learn from their lives can broaden our sense of time, of life, and of our humanity.
It is exciting to make these discoveries.
Spider, you may be right that this thread should be deleted, although it is not very specific on locations. So much of the archaeological heritage of Honduras is as yet unexplored.
Well, most of the heritage of the world is unexplored, come to that. :)
ff
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Apr 25, 2017 - 08:17am PT
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I was working on an exploration staking contract a few years ago. While walking to the next location, I came across the remains of an old prospector's cabin. Part of the contract stated to note any archeological finds, which in this case was any manmade object >50 years old per the USFS. I took a quick picture and a GPS coordinate. When I dropped the staking documentation off at the USFS office I mentioned the cabin and its general condition to the gov't geo in charge of permitting.
Fast forward a year and I found myself in the USFS office on a follow up project. I inquired if the site was actually investigated. He said it had been and they actually found some "pretty cool stuff". I asked if I could see the report and without losing a beat he said that I could not, archaeological reports are held in confidence. When I asked the reasoning behind that, he told me that the report couldn't be viewed as it had sensitive location information in it and releasing the info could lead to looting. I let out a small laugh and asked if I should delete my GPS data.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Apr 25, 2017 - 02:27pm PT
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Listen to feralfae if this is not a troll.
Q-Ball ain't no troll, you can take that to the bank.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2017 - 02:37pm PT
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I spent several hours on the phone today with both sides involved. Both seem like good guys with very different opinions on how to protect this whole region. I've decided to not tell locations to them. Getting deep into Honduran politics is a game of Russian roulette I don't play. That's how I stay safe in these areas.
This area means a lot to me! And especially my Pech friends being killed by the drug cartels.
I'm not worried with the vague statements I've made here. Trust me, this area is very remote and untraveled in modern times..
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 25, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
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How do you know it is an unknown civilization?
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
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Stahlbro,
Maybe I should have said undocumented city. Also there is no formal name for the people that inhabited this region.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Apr 25, 2017 - 03:19pm PT
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Ok. Thanks Q.
I would still recommend that someone formally survey the site, even if the location is kept on the down low.
Very exciting stuff.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
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Nope, but I have used LIDAR maps to help arch guys in Copan Ruinas
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
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The memory that still brings tears to my eyes is of a Pech friend sitting on a log in pouring rain for hours. He mumbled over and over this is very special for my people. How did you find it?
I had guided him to it which in itself seems strange for a hillbilly from TN.
It was a very powerful moment.. For that reason I've decided to not share info for now.
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John M
climber
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Apr 25, 2017 - 10:31pm PT
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An Indian associated with this wants to tell everyone. It is a strange battle. He thinks media attention will help save the area. Honduras is always tricky. He doesn't know the location.
It seems like this might come out whether you want it to or not.
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