A Response to Trumpism

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Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 11, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
I didn't see a problem with grabbing some Italian pussy...




We agreed nobody else had to know...


Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
sempervirens, Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, I wrote the OP in a run and should have edited more thoroughly before posting.

Just to drive home - "This was also when the Glass-Steagall Act was still in place..."
Jorroh

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
"Republican dismantling of this allowed the crash of 2007 that came close to bringing down the international economy"

No really true. A generation of center left politicians both in the US and europe fully bought into neoliberalism, all be it offering a watered down version compared to their conservative contemporaries.
sempervirens

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
Madbolt, by "fire" I mean the momentum (perceived or real) of the right-wing to support anti-immigrant policies, gutting the EPA, repeal Obama care, denial of climate change, etc. "Tryin'" to put it out is protesting. By throwing fuel on the fire I mean protester's naive comments calling all trumpers racists (a blatant bigoted comment in itself) or talkin' sh#t about the "white males" who voted for trump. If you ascribe a person's views to their race and gender well.... that is the definition of racism and gender. This fuels the fire 'cause it emboldens and makes far right wingers more determined to fight. It's a great story for foxx news, they love that sh#t. Then you get right wingers doing much the same: labelling all the anti-trump as naive bigots. And then ya get more people moving further to the extreme right and left. Just what the media and politicians love. They make use of the manufactured dichotomy, as we've seen used by trump. I'm anti-trump 'cause he literally incited violence and made blatant bigoted comments in public. But the real worry is that Americans were so easily manipulated by this. Then trump wins and the manipulation is getting even more effective. People are taking the bait.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Nov 11, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Ah, got it! Thanks, Semper!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
And then ya get more people moving further to the extreme right and left. Just what the media and politicians love. They make use of the manufactured dichotomy,

Ah, the heart of the thing.
Bargainhunter

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Very nice summary, outlook, and plan Mark!
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 11, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
PotatoHead,

Do you have any specific responses to the post or are you ranting? You are making some projections here.

I am by philosophy a stoic. Hysteria is not part of my nature. I am more motivated by reasoned action.

How much command do you have of civics?

PS What does WOT mean?

I edited the article for more clarity.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46425436/A%20Response%20To%20Trumpism.pdf
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 11, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
he'll either be impeached by the rupugs who would LOVE to have Pence as a party-line puppet. Or he'll resign since it was never his intent to actually win. Or the stressed out, over weight, out of shape, 74 year old taking on the hardest job in the world will croak or an MI right before a meeting with his lover Putin. 18 months max. take your pick.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Nov 11, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
he'll either be impeached by the rupugs who would LOVE to have Pence as a party-line puppet. Or he'll resign since it was never his intent to actually win. Or the stressed out, over weight, out of shape, 74 year old taking on the hardest job in the world will croak or an MI right before a meeting with his lover Putin. 18 months max. take your pick.

If he were to be assassinated, it would be by the right wing, not the left.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 11, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
Good post, Mark, and some good ideas as we wrap our heads around what just happened and try to figure out what to do next.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 11:07pm PT
PotatoHead, Thanks for pointing out that misspell - it should have been "rejoined the ACLU..."
The Sierra Club, NRDC, and Union of Conderned Scientists were reups, too.

These actions aren't motivated by guilt or whatever other of that stuff yer slingin'

They are proactive ripostes to what I see coming up. They seem appropriate action for the long game.

How do you feel about the technology wave model of where to focus economic growth, restoration of infrastructure, public (open source) R&D, job growth, and training for people currently disenfranchised to prosper? Do you get that putting money into reviving older wave industries isn't economically sound or answer the low wage job or joblessness problems?

To the point, the promises Trump has made to help those most in need were pure pandering. They betray basic economic realities, string them along further, and add to their suffering.

Can you be specific about the confused parts?

Posted the more edited version on FaceBook and a friend of mine who is a tenured professor of Global Strategy at Thunderbird School of Global Management and lectures and consults all over the world - especially Europe and Asia (extensively in China) said "Thank you for your letter. You nailed it!"and posted it on her page. Note: She's a serious academic and doesn't give praise easy.

A fuller position is in the later link as a PDF. Please share more so I can edit further.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46425436/A%20Response%20To%20Trumpism.pdf

Cheers, Mark
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 12, 2016 - 04:07am PT
Wow the Op and the responses!
Top flight style-the reason I'm so caught by this place and its inhabitants
.
While I'm terrified of Pence, I can see where maybe this is not the total take over of the United States.
An autocratic leader - a member of the World Oligarchy and a sexual predator has taken the helm.
We have a perfect view of the coming world conflagrations, let's hope the fall of the rest of the world overruns China first.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 12, 2016 - 04:15am PT
Thank you for your post.
I have not actually changed my mind although I like HRC less now than before she lost. I've not seen any mention of the Bush families' or Clinton Fondations' & by extension HRC's suspicious Ties to the numerous Vile administrations of totalitarian governments around the globe.
As for the ability to learn and get a grasp on what it is that has started the Origanal
And VEY Enlightening post is a must read, I'm not on the Data collection program.
It is some sort of evil... Faceplant , not
But I am addicted to Taco suffering it works me up and crushes me to see the lack of cogent
thought among people who's other activities I relish reading about.
Here then if no one has deleted since I started this post is one of the most important things
( given the list of ~DO SOMETHING S~ as well as the posts it generated in response)
Is Mr Force's letter,

Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 11, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Would have preferred Warren Buffett. Voted for Clinton. Arguably the most qualifiied politician to be president since...Eisenhower?

Emails and Benghazi? Both previous Secretaries of State Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powelll couldn't figure out why there was such a fuss. There were a few Benghazis during Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan without wanting the Secretary Of States head. Clinton had been for funding to bolster embassy security and had been refused by Congress. Stevens chose to operate out of Benghazi though Clinton had advised he operate out of Tripoli where the embassy was better secured.

She should have mea culpaed right off the bat and submitted all the emails immediately. Bad call. Otherwise, sheesh!?

The Clinton Foundation provides ~$200 million a year to charity which is ~ 87% of their revenue, the are rated 93/100 for transparency, and are a platinum rated charity with Charity Navigator, the top charity rating service according to the Wall Street Journal.

When looking up the Trump Foundation it is not considered eligible to be rated. That is the same story for the next two charity rating agencies recommended by the WSJ.

There has been an alternate reality built around Clinton that I find bizarre. And, the decision of many to vote for Trump just to have something different in Washington? Reckless, immature, and simple minded. A doctor that I have mentored and is a naturopath voted for Trump because he is against mandatory vaccination, unlike Clinton. The rest wasn't really part of his equation. Wow.

Trump expresses an uncontrolled Id unfettered by neocortex functions that represents our primitive reptilian impulses. It resonates for people that find that way of being compelling. Sadly.

The long term view is that this event may be useful in that it will end up laying bare the lie that is Trumpism and the multiple lies of the Republican Party since Reagan. I find it interesting that the US was the largest lender nation in the world when the idea of trickle down economics was instituted during Reagan and we are now the largest debtor nation in the world. But, hey, If you like what you're getting just keep doing what you're doing.

It's interesting that many conservatives have nostalgia for the 50s when the top end tax rate was much higher and much of that went to infrastructure, public R&D, and full financing of our public institutions. This was also before the Glass-Steagall Act was still in place to prevent financial institutions gambling with investors money. Republican dismantling of this allowed the crash of 2007 that came close to bringing down the international economy. And, by the way - Obama didn't cause it. He inherited it. THe crash was already a done deal when he was taking oath.

Now the Repubican Party hold the reins, so they can't bitch about what happens. The fundamental unreality of the platform will be laid out for all to see.

Not that the Democratic party has their sh#t together. They haven't been clear about their vision and their mission of service. They got their wake up call. And, the left side of that party is just annoying - get a job and stop whining! Rise by your merits and hard work.

I consider myself centrist libetarian so no party totally represents me - including the Libertarian Party that seems to be largely comprised of Tea Party folks that don't want to pay anything, but want the government to "stay out of my medicare and social security," conspiracy theorists that think "chem trails" are a plot by the government for thought and population control, militia nutters, and tax evaders that think they shouldn't have to pay taxes and then complain about potholes in the road.

Be clear that Trump won the electoral college, but not the majority of the vote.

Here is some irony for you.

"Trump's judgement on the protests (which are set to continue tonight) seems typically hypocritical considering his reaction to Obama's reelection in 2012. On November 7th that year, Trump tweeted that US citizens should "march on Washington and stop this travesty," and that the country needed to "fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice."

~ from The Verge

Here's a Trump tweet from 2012 -

"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"

Here is a tweet from yesterday -

"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"

Now, this is all starting to look like the Three Stooges and would be funny if it weren't so dangerous. Suggested cohorts are Giuliani (Attorney General), Newt Gingrich (Secretary of State), Steve Bannon (Chief of Staff), and Sarah Palin (Secretary of the Interior?? Are you effing kidding me?? That's like making has been suggested Myron Ebell, aclimate shift denier, for

This scenario is starting to look like it is leaning toward a governance modeled after "The Lord of the Flies."

He'd better get used to the first amendment cuz' it ain't going away. He's such a whiner.

So, anyway. Bitching will only go so far. The next step is to plan and act wisely.

Yvon Chouinard, regardless of what you happen to think of him - in general - wisely says "Vote for the planet."

Here are actions I plan to take in response to current trends in our governance.

First is to support presrvation of the natural world, in part just because, but in greater part sustainabilty is a good idea if you want your offpring to have a world that supports human life (Hey, Mother Nature will be fine in the long run after we've shot ourselves in the head). And, damage done now may not be fixable later.

Second goal is to preserve civil liberties. Trump has repeatedly shown that he doesn't understand this aspect of our foundation.

Third goal is to support the emerging world changing technology - sustainable energy systems and agriculture. Steel manufacturing is not coming back to the US in any large way. The industries that Trump has promised to restore aren't on the things to do based on reality list. All those promises he made are false promises.

Those manufacturing industries represent previous technological waves.

The US enjoys it's prominent position in the world because of "owning" the last few technological revolutions/waves. While Great Britain owned the first industrial revolution, we owned the second one exemplified by the "assembly line." We also led and controlled technological waves that have followed - Industrial Agriculture (often referred to by the misnomer "The Green Revolution"), Scientific-Technical, Digital, and Information.

The next two waves are -

1) Sustainable agriculture/agro-ecology. This will be free of GMOs and pesticides-herbicides and will drive yeilds through emerging soil science technologies and crop rotation and integrated planting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/business/gmo-promise-falls-short.html

2) Sustainable energy systems. China knows this is the next technological wave that will determine the most dominant economy/country in the near future. Who owns essentially all of the lithium reserves in South America? China. Who owns most of the rare earth metals in the world? China. This is what is behind their investments in mining reserves in Africa, Australia, and even Afghanistan.

China is clear about the future and is working diligently to control it. We are acting like children thinking the answer is to make steel again.

Going back to the Industrial Wave is not in our national intrests and doesn't serve the bigger picture. It doesn't ultimately serve people who are feeling the pinch from that technological waves' natural decline. To put the disenfranchised to work in rebuilding our infrastructure and retrain them to have ownership in the sustainable agriculture and energy waves.

Interestingly, federal investment in infrastructure and R&D made our "ownership" of these technological waves possible. Where did the money come from? Taxes. Especially, the tax structure of the 50s that required that the high earners paid at a tax rate commensurate with their utilization and enjoyment of the infrastructure, including stable rule of law, that supported their prosperity.

What I'm advocating will lead to higher taxes for me. I'm OK with that. It's not all about me.

“Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.” ~ US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Fourth, promote civility. We Americans have been traditionally known to have, generally, a remarkably civil society. We need to restore this standard and principle. To this end, we need to act civilly, even when it is not present otherwise.

We need to be less polarized, not more polarized. We need to use reason more and blind passion less. We need to remember at the core we all want basically the same things. We need to keep in mind that hatred in all of its' manifestations is primarily - overt or covert - is and expression of ignorance and suffering (mostly pain and fear).

We need to realize that it is overall more effective to stand and work for something rather than fight against a thing - not that taking a stand against some things - pillage of commonwealth resources or against assaults of women, for instance.

Doing Something
1) I have donated to the Sierra Club, National Resources Defense Council, Environmental Defense Fund, and 1% for the Planet. I plan to donate monthly.
Sierra Club
http://www.sierraclub.org
National Resources Defense Council
https://www.nrdc.org
Environmental Defense Fund,
https://www.edf.org
1% for the Planet
http://onepercentfortheplanet.org

2) I have donated to The Union of Concerned Scientists, Food and Water Watch, and Center for Food Safety. I plan to donate monthly.
The Union of Concerned Scientists
http://www.ucsusa.org
Food and Water Watch
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org
Center for Food Safety
http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org

3) I have joined the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). I plan to donate monthly.
American Civil Liberties Union
https://www.aclu.org

4) I have been contributing monthly to Save the Children Fund with the money directed within the US because kids here in this country go hungry and plan to continue.
Save the Children Fund
http://www.savethechildren.org

5) I plan to make a study of civilty and work toward practicing civility moment by moment, to the best of my ability.

5) The Rogue Valley where I live in southern Oregon is an area currently developing sustainable agriculture and energy systems. My wife and I have recently moved here and plan to become more involved with local groups to support these developments. The ideal is to be a model for other areas of the country.

This is all to make a statement that puts me under the obligation to be true to my word. It is also to put out ideas, concepts and resources for you to develop your own ideas and plans for supporting a future that promotes liberty for all, sustainability and perpetuation of our Founders ideals.

Unlike Trump who has a long history of unfulfilled promises of charity, I will provide receipts upon request.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 12, 2016 - 05:01am PT
5) I plan to make a study of civilty and work toward practicing civility moment by moment, to the best of my ability

This would mean leaving the topic and letting it run its course, giving us all a well-learned political lesson.

The election is over. Look to the future and not to the past. Give the other fellow an even chance...your candidate, had she won, would deserve this, so fair play, dinkum.

Mark, you are a consistent voice for moderation, in my view. And you haven't been bitten by a rabid dog like some here who go after the tiniest fragment of liberality.

Not tolerating intolerance, however...it is hard to practice in a political year, with so many ants stirred up from deep in the nest.

It seems hard to practice forbearance when we wish to comment on another's comment. Let the f*#ker growl and circle in his spot and he'll calm down and sleep eventually, lie down, and maybe go to sleep. You won't change his mind, so don't try...you'll only give yourself a mental hernia or put your own foot in the same sh#t-pile and get the same nasty looks and responses.

This is why I almost never respond to politardism. It is right up there with polytheism, pantheism, and the Polys.

I liked this video of an interview long ago with the young, up-and-coming entrepreneur. I'd like to think that some of his idealism is still intact, but he has won and now must change his tack, bridging gaps, etc.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
I give Mr. Trump the benefit of the doubt as he enters into public service. It is the civil response to his bombast, his egomania, and his disdain for non-Americans.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2016 - 08:01am PT
Gnome, yeah cogent thought and discipline are good things for us to strive for certainly.

Mouse, here, here, for moderation. And, for keeping in mind that moderation and civility don't preclude a firm stand against intolerance and bigotry.

My wife says stupidity should be painful - that all of us should experience excruciating pain every time we're stupid. What a wonderful thing that would be! Sure would solve a lot of problems fast.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 12, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Great OP Mark!

Dead. Spot. On.

I agree, and have been encouraging my children to take the same tack.

Fight for the world you believe in. Fight for the environment.

Orange Is The New Black!!
c wilmot

climber
Nov 12, 2016 - 08:57am PT
You guys really need to research our support of the Islamic terrorist groups we call "rebels" in places like Syria and Libya. While your at it research our actions in Egypt, tunesia,and Libya and how all of this has helped lead to the largest mass displacement of humans since ww2. Read up on how many innocent civilians have been killed by obamas drone strike program. Our president (all of them) are anything but "civil"
c wilmot

climber
Nov 12, 2016 - 09:38am PT
Start with Syria- a country that was religiously tolerant and stable and run by a former ophthalmologist who was working in Britain and is married to a British woman. He was not even seeking to be their leader but was rather thrust into power when his brother died. While Obama says he "must go" what is the reason? He has yet to explain our bizarre support of the Islamic groups our media calls "rebels" -who are intertwined with al quada and Isis and are commiting religious genocide- killing off anyone who is not a true believer in their eyes. Further- if these murderous groups do get power what then? An Islamic caliphate - as that is their one shared goal. Now why on earth is US taxmoney supporting this?

And is obama really caring? As when one of our rebel groups beheaded a child the most our admin could muster was to say it was a "regrettable incident". We still provide aid to that group to this day


Yup- save the children....
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