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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Sep 28, 2016 - 12:02am PT
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I like Musk's mentioning of 'forcing functions'. It reminds me of Messner talking about climbing 'past the cramp point' back in the 70s. How far we've come!
John Hansen, your question makes me see we live in a contained atmosphere here. It's just a matter of scale. Maybe caverns will be discovered to seal off and live in.
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Sep 28, 2016 - 12:44am PT
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We sent ships and people to colonise America, look how well that turned out.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 28, 2016 - 03:40am PT
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I'm to bruised to bother
Brother
Choose The second by default Blame it On Aliens... Well one alien goes by code , itz binary
It goes by AyeAyi.
Or you can say, "Don't waste ma tax payer money on all that space man voodoo Martian crap! Ol' Donald's gonna set all you mother truckers straight, why I'm so mad, I'm mad as hell and I don't know why! My neighbor's mad and that makes me mad too, and I still don't know why! My brother died in a boating accident, he coulda swam with two hands and he wouldn't let go of that beer, and the then prop got 'im, damn it cut off his damn head an dammit, he saved that beer! We got that Schlitz can bronzed an mounted on his casket the way he woulda wanted god dammit an am so mad I cai'nt see straight now! God dammit!! Why do I need a background check to get me a gun an a pressure cooker?
that describes my lunatic neighbor!
Watch your kids n' cats,
don't Like the look of cats, just certain ones,
Iay n ayi, n' I, likes to swing em by the tail every chance I get
Like this
Don't know why You are mad ? - you don't live next door.( Do You.)
That guy, my Hext door neighbor -he is a postman
an aging no longer any where near middle class no more
2 kids a Labrador.
Receiver of a 30 year Re-FI, a pool to work his shoulders (lucky guy, trying to pay the taxez)
A white McDonalds junky, with one dead from Herion the other sending it home from
Lost in to military service , strong patriotic 'merican.
With rage issues too, Also.
Thank good he has substances abuse issues, it is all that keeps him lamé.
As for why to be mad as hell so mad that you can't spell square?
Your grand children aren't the parents child. Look you'll see it
Attached , detached - plugged IN, ~ , BORG ~. %#£@x~!* don't tell me
Look they have it in their ears. And glazed over looks aren't even a descriptive anymore
Wake up the human race is slave food for the machine....
Ay aye recruited line up behind the bush
MAN
[Click to View YouTube Video]
No one is going to *Mars *(Expletive!) the technology is not 'our's' we are still reverse engineering stuff if you read between the lines , right Tom?
And yes sorry you are all already harvested if you belive that any thing is ever gonna get outta here alive
(Auespishus that,,,) Auspicious
Que da Doors
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Sep 28, 2016 - 05:11am PT
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john hansen posted
Would it be like the summit of Everest? Worse than that. Surface atmospheric pressure on Mars is approximately the same as at an altitude of 100,000' on Earth.
Even if the Mars atmosphere were 100% oxygen, that pressure is far below the minimum necessary to support human life (which is generally reckoned to be the pressure equivalent of something like 40,000').
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 28, 2016 - 07:08am PT
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Terraforming a planet is murder on a planetary scale.
Especially if executed with ropes and bolts.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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Sending bacteria to Mars won't do it; it takes photosynthetic plants to build an oxygen rich atmosphere. The key to having a breathable atmosphere is increased density to 5 psi or higher, with an approximate 40 % oxygen content. Ang...yeah...there are mountains on Mars: Olympus Mons, which dwarfs Everest.
For me, the major driving force to go to Mars is exploration and the search for evidence of life past, and for life present. Mars was once a warm and wet planet, with conditions similar to those which allowed life to develop in Earth. The combination of adventure, science, and exploration combine an unbeatable combination of drivers.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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Although Elon has also released the probable name of his first colonization space ship, "Heart of Gold," I figure that he may be wildly optimistic about his plan. Heart of Gold was a spaceship in the very popular SF novel "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy."
I didn't want to comment or criticize this plan until I gave myself some time to carefully evaluate all the ramifications of his proposal, but after due consideration, find it to be too optimistic w/r to the timeline and the fact it blithely skips over some of the necessary "proof of concept" steps. No doubt a very visionary concept but extremely aggressive of some new technologies yet unproven. The test firing of the prototype Raptor engine was a good landmark step, but the carbon fiber construction needs to be verified by some intermediate design, and on a somewhat smaller scale. OK, get small crew to Mars for proof of concept, then maybe a 15 person staff to begin building the refueling facility and start some base construction. I don't doubt this will ultimately happen, but not in the 10 year timeline he's proposed. There is a joke within the space community referring to "Elon time," which is usually irrationally optimistic.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 28, 2016 - 10:04am PT
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Until we demonstrate we can create sustainable human existence on our home planet, it seems silly to try and create it from scratch on a really inhospitable planet.
I support space exploration through unmanned probes. We will learn just as much at this point. All our resources should be focused on trying to prevent a human driven mass extinction on this planet, IMHO.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Sep 28, 2016 - 10:09am PT
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^^^^^A voice of reason. Thank you.
There is wonder and exploration science, useful science, and self-aggrandizing jerk off science......
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c wilmot
climber
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Sep 28, 2016 - 10:49am PT
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The only reason the wealthy elite want to go to mars is to exploit resources for profit. How many locations on earth has America already eagle f"""" for profit? Let's not rape mars
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 28, 2016 - 10:52am PT
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DMT, please give me the list of currently existing life forms discovered so far on Mars. Until you can do that, you are calling the kettle black.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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The Mars Society was founded several years ago in order to promote travel to, and development of the Red Planet.
One of the major concerns of many professional scientists, in addition to space nerds, was setting up a "genetic insurance policy, or savings account," as a hedge against some natural catastrophe or disaster. Think: asteroid impact, such as the dinosaur killer millennia ago. The Mars Society was founded on the campus of the University of Colorado, in Boulder; it just concluded it's 19th annual convention at the Catholic University, in Washington, D.C. It's also about "the science," as well as a noble undertaking demonstrating the best capabilities of mankind. Not to forget--adventure, and being at the spearpoint of a new frontier.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Sep 28, 2016 - 11:29am PT
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I love sci-fi.
But...
It ends up laughable when fellow science lovers confuse that passion with their passion for sci-fi.
Going the "We need to develop/settle other planets so we have somewhere to go after we eff up this one" is a non-starter on grounds of science and economics.
The closest reality based scenario we could fuse science, economics, and sci-if to is "Silent Running."
Have fun on that trip. I'll stay here, thanks but no thanks.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 28, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
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The thing that concerns me the most is the undercurrent that this "brave new world" will be populated with the elite who can afford the trip, or make "the cut".
A cynical person would say they are trying to escape the gritty reality that is human existence on earth in favor of some imagined utopia populated with the "cream of the crop".
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
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Mark-
In times past...Science Fiction morphed into...Science Reality.
From the Dick Tracy comics: "2 way wrist radio," ---> Cell phones.
Jules Verne's "From Earth to Moon," involved a powerful cannon. ---> Saturn V and the Eagle has landed.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 28, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
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For those of you that say Musk should focus on making life on earth more sustainable, he does that too.
He also started PayPal
Created a video game when he was 12
Founded Tesla Motors
Wants to build a hyperloop between LA and SF
Started the second largest solar company in the US
And a bunch of other stuff.
It's fun to sit back and see what he's capable of and I think creating objectives that seem beyond reach is wonderful. It's like he thinks 100 years ahead of everyone else. Just my opinion.
Oh, and I'm not sure why screwing with a lifeless planet is a problem. Not remotely similar to Europeans colonizing North America, like some people say.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
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This idea appeals strongly to my sense of adventure, and I even have my business plan to provide something every frontier culture demands: alcohol. I can manufacture Ethyl Alcohol directly from the Carbon Dioxide atmosphere, passing through Ethylene and then catalytic addition of water across the double bond. Absolutely pure, no adulterants, analytical regent grade alcohol. Maybe I should call it "Martian Mist?" Ship it back to you Earthlings at an enormous profit, since there would be no Federal excise tax imposed.
In response to Limpingcrab's post; we don't even need to steal the land from the natives, either!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 28, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
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"Have fun on that trip. I'll stay here, thanks but no thanks."
The Great Mark Force opines.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
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I will found an entire industry on Mars! The venture will be called "Atmospheric Chemical Company," since the Carbon Dioxide atmosphere will be the basis of my booze manufacturing, as well as making polyethylene for the structural material requirements in the construction industry.
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