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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 18, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
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I can recall numerous times when I spent the whole day in front of a tube debugging and woke up at the end of the day with a dead body. Be careful if you go down the programming path. The lack of activity it can induce may kill ya.
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Crag Q
Trad climber
Louisville, Colorado
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Sep 18, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
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You could consider a code bootcamp or immersive to become a web programmer. These skills are in high demand. I work for galvanize.com as a lead web development instructor. It is freaking amazing how much these students learn going through it together in a crucible experience. The program has a 90+% placement rate and average starting salary of $75k. I would suspect Portland has some worthwhile programs.
It is difficult to learn programming all on your own.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Sep 18, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
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Man, you have serious education credentials and management experience. You just aren't using them to their fullest. Get a PE. Look beyond Bend. There are many engineering firms that would love to have you on their team. As well as government opportunities in larger cities.
Got some news for you: jobs tend to suck. It is a competitive game and engineering in general is mostly spent staring at a computer screen producing spreadsheets and reports. It is what it is. But you have the pedigrees and experience to make it work.
Like to travel? Try looking at firms like Fluor, Jacobs or others that will have assignments around the world at which you will make a ton of money.
Just another two cents.
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Al Barkamps
Social climber
Red Stick
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Sep 18, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
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Get a PE
That's pretty solid advice.
With a PE you'll be your boss's boss and you can tell him to STFU (10 minutes before closing time).
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 18, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
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At 38 I would save your time and $$$$. There's nothing wrong with learning something new but it can be an ugly and competitive field.
Programmers are a dime a dozen now, a commodity. It's true the very intelligent sorts capable of critical thought exist but they are extremely rare, as they are in any profession. It's truly a global field now absolutely stuffed to the gills with bodies stacked on bodies. Most of them suck and I spend my days sorting through this sea of chaff, all sporting nearly identical perfect resumes of lies.... Uggh...
Take it up as a hobby if you're really interested. IMO, the really good ones I've known have all loved it since childhood and were given the opportunities at that time to exploit that interest.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Sep 18, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
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high information content in the two posts immediately above
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 18, 2016 - 11:32pm PT
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I'm regularly wanting to do something with my computer that coding would assist me. I also need to re create my work website, which sucks!
There is a good place to start. I've been at this game a very long time and would again encourage you to build on whatever domain expertise you've acquired and follow your nose relative to needs you can see that aren't being fulfilled in your own work.
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curlie
Trad climber
SLO, CA
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Sep 19, 2016 - 11:26am PT
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Don't be discouraged, skitch. There's nothing worse than getting up every day and going to a job you hate. If you want a change, make a change! If you're interested in programming and motivated to learn, just f*#kin go for it. It's never too late to learn a new skill.
There's definitely no free lunch, and if you're looking to learn and advance quickly, you'll probably need to physically be at a workplace. And going to a bootcamp, or getting some sort of practical experience will help you get hired. After you gain some skills, have a few years under your belt, and have contacts, then you'll be in a better position to work remotely.
Outsourcing isn't a panacea, and a lot of companies know that and prefer to have asses in seats. Don't worry about outsourcing and sh#t that is out of your control, worry about honing your own skills.
While it may seem lower risk to look for problems in your environmental field that need software solutions, if you're not enthusiastic about it, f*#k it. Don't underestimate how much the same old sh#t can drag you down, or how much being thrown into something completely new can motivate. If your current career is sucking the life out of you, get the f*#k out.
And that's great that you've found local mentors - use the sh#t out of that resource. It's great to talk nerd with other nerds, and it's really great to help someone learn and see them take off.
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tpowell
Trad climber
Rawlins, Wyoming
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Sep 19, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
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As you are an engineer it could be beneficial to add a programming/scripting language such as python to your skill set.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 19, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
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Separate in your mind "writing code" from what you are writing the code *for*.
Most of these posts are akin to telling you to go learn MS Word so you can get a job as Shakespeare. Good luck with that. Go learn MS Word, now you can be his secretary.
If you are interested in Web design, go learn that. If you want to learn hardware, applications, networking, database, etc. - go learn that. The code part is trivial. Any idiot can learn to write code, and quickly. It's a low end, production level task. Nobody cares how "well" the code is written, just that it works, and pretty much anyone can get a program to perform a task, given enough time. Maybe it's spaghetti and unmaintainable - nobody cares.
The expert on the systems that code runs on or is applied to is where the interesting and better paying jobs are.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Sep 19, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
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I'm a mining engineer, but the advice is still decent as I work with enviro's and do a fair bit of mech/civil work:
" so I have a really hard time telling them what to do (how does an office jockey tell a heavy equipment mechanic how to do his job?) and if I do know how to do something I'd tend to rather just do it myself.... "
This is management - guiding the vision to tell underlings what to do, and only when necessary "how". Typically they will know how, and if not be able to figure it out. Do you like your boss telling you how to do something? If he's worth anything he occasionally tells you what needs to be done, and why. You don't need to run a skid steer or 960 loader - the operator does this - but he needs to have the prints and know where to dig by hand so he doesn't nail the live gas line, eh? (Did you get your bluestake???) This sh#t is important.
Some of the tedium of management, reporting, etc. might get old, and often managing people sucks (boss, I'm sick again.) But project management and all that goes into getting a job planned and built is important - for the client and for society. Did that water treatment plant go up for nothing?
There are a lot of places that your skills are needed. If you feel you aren't valued in your current role, look elsewhere.
And get a PE.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Sep 19, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
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There's a lot of info others have posted here that is wrong. Perhaps it's true in a narrow segment of the industry but not in general. First I'd like to point some of it out.
All programming is just syntax and data structures supplemented with logic.
Not true it's much more than that - algorithmic thinking matters! Consider working on a massively parallel system, or code for an FPGA, or firmware, or scientific programming, etc. Understanding the how the actual system work (by system I mean machine or machines your working on) actually matter. Writing OS code, state machines, etc is also much more than just logic and syntax.
Are you smart enough to be a good programmer? Civil engineering is not a plus on the hiring checklist.
Um depends on the sector. Consider a company like Autodesk. Who do you think writes and designs a lot of their code - civil engineers, environmental engineers, and architects. Want to write code in the NE field (nuclear engineering) - well there you will meet civil engineers, enviornemntal engineers, physics, math and nuclear types.
Good debugging skills are extremely important. What complicated auto problems have you tracked down?
There are PLENTY (probably the vast majority) of programmers who should NEVER turn a wrench and have no mechanical aptitude.
Salaries for someone with your educational background in Engineering are around $150k/year. What more do you want?
Salary is very location dependent - maybe this number is correct in NYC or SF but I doubt it true in general and I'm to lazy to go hunt down the real numbers and cite them.
Also, if you don't know SQL then your limiting your range of jobs significantly.
This is only true if you're limiting your self to specific areas of programming. It's like saying that not knowing Android is significantly limiting your available jobs. That statement is true if and only if you're solely focused on the mobile sector.
If you're going to do any kind of programming, stick with security, admin., and stay away from engineering applications unless you plan on getting a company to foot the bill for a security clearance.
I call total bullshit here - here are a list of a FEW fields (there are MANY more) where you can work doing scientific/engineering programming and do not need a clearance. There are many more.
1) Power (power plant, oil and gas, nuclear, solar wind)
2) Automotive - did you know a typical car has 10+ antennas in it these days? Now imagine the number of computers actually in your car.
3) ANYTHING CONSUMER DRIVEN - THINK CONSUMER ELECTRONICS! Do you think the people working on the guts of a flat screen tv (yes there is software in those guts)have clearances?
4) Non military aviation.
Furthermore any company that needs people for something requiring a clearance will (depending on the contract) quite often pay for your clearance - how do you think people get them? There are more contractor clearance than military.
I've come from the environmental/civil field and there's not a single application in either of those fields that's not custom served by some off-the-shelf routine.
This is utterly wrong as well. Rather than provide numerous examples (which there are) I will mention a silly equation - Naiver Stokes. This equation describes fluid flow (fluid = liquid or gas). There is no closed form solution so no cookbook method in general works. Where do we encounter fluids? Aviation, wind power, turbines, water flow, etc.
There are many other examples that live in the scientific world.
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OKAY now that I've dispelled a few myths I have a few comments for you.
I think you need to figure out what's important in a workplace and career. Once you have that then try to find the best solution for you to achieve that. Just saying you have a few buds who write code and are happy does not obviously extrapolate to you doing this and being happy.
You're also going to have to decide if you're willing to relocate or not.
One obvious solution is to take a class or two in C or C# (and maybe buy MATLAB and relearn it - there is now a home version for 150 or 200 USD) and try to leverage you Civil/environmental education/background into a scientific programmer position. I view this as the fastest way in for you into programming type work with the smallest loss of salary and allowing growth for you. It will really help for you to network to find these gigs.
Alternatively go back to grad school at night. After a year or so you'll have an opportunities to intern - leverage this into a full time gig.
I have to say I really like the idea suggested by a few of you getting you're PE license. Yes, that requires working under a PE so you'll have to find a new gig but that might yield the most bang for the time invested.
Again, I really believe that you need to figure out what you truly want rather than trying to find a silver bullet.
Good luck!
kev
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
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My biggest issue with my current job is that I don't work in waste water, I work with landfills. I also do not work for an engineer, and it would take a very imaginative person to describe anything I do as engineering tasks.
Oh well, maybe your discouragement will come true, but f*#k you, I'm going to try anyways. Nothing motivates me more than proving someone wrong!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Sep 19, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
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Oh well, maybe your discouragement will come true, but f*#k you, I'm going to try anyways. Nothing motivates me more than proving someone wrong!
I wasn't trying to be discouraging. Not at all - sorry if it came across that way. I was trying to dispel what some of the others have written. Again sorry if it came out that way - it was NOT meant that way.
I may still have some contacts in the waste water area - I did a little contract work working with novel solutions to treating waste water by using floating bioreactors to break down the waste water into aviation gas. Feel free to PM me.
FYI my background is mathematics, scientific programming, and a smattering of electrical engineering.
kev
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Sep 19, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
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OK, one more then I gotta go.
Acquire some programming skills (if you already have them fine). Then sit down and program for 10 hours. Do it for a few days consecutively.
At the end ask yourself how you feel.
I was more than happy to allocate significant pieces of projects to sub-contractors to code.
Good luck.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Sep 19, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
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I can't imagine sitting hour after hour trying to debug someone else's program. It's tough enough for my own. Think this through carefully.
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Al Barkamps
Social climber
Red Stick
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Sep 19, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
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This is utterly wrong as well. Rather than provide numerous examples (which there are) I will mention a silly equation - Naiver Stokes.
Advice like this is worth every penny the OP paid....
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Dick Danger
Trad climber
Lakewood, Colorado
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Sep 19, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
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Go start a "Go Fund Me" page.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Sep 19, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
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Al,
Wow nice use of an out of context quote of what I wrote! Here's the whole quote
I've come from the environmental/civil field and there's not a single application in either of those fields that's not custom served by some off-the-shelf routine.
This is utterly wrong as well. Rather than provide numerous examples (which there are) I will mention a silly equation - Naiver Stokes. This equation describes fluid flow (fluid = liquid or gas). There is no closed form solution so no cookbook method in general works. Where do we encounter fluids? Aviation, wind power, turbines, water flow, etc.
There are many other examples that live in the scientific world.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Sep 19, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
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You have a dream degree and experience. Army Corps is hiring guys like you faster than they can make them.
Tricky bit is you want to live in Bend. I suppose that is the reason for the career change trend.
If you were willing to move around you could pull down some serious bank.
I'm just guessing the oil companies would pay you the best. You could probably afford a nice place in Santa Barbara.
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